The Official Albums for 2008!

[Randy Thornton]

Christopher,

I don?t know the answers to the questions you?ve asked. If I did a ride-thru, I might have that paperwork. But I didn?t. If the composer himself cannot help you, I certainly can?t. Just to be clear, I don?t work on the attractions or have any involvement with WDI (or The Parks) beyond working with the audio for the Official Albums. To be perfectly honest, I have never ridden EEA (though I did ride Universe of Energy) so I know even less about this version than most on this forum.

To your request and suggestion for easier releases ? wouldn?t that be great! It Will NEVER Happen. EVER. Publishing costs MUST be paid. Union conversions MUST be paid. That is the law.

I?m going to give you one FINAL bit of info that I hope may give you some perspective. If EVERYONE (all 770) who signed your petition paid $100 a piece, that will still be just a tad short of paying the AFofM clearances for 1 (one, singular, uno) track. That figure would be for AFofM clearances alone and would not include Music Publishing, any AFTRA Talent, mastering, or manufacturing. That's also if the track is not a medley. In a medley, you can roughly multiply that sum by the number of songs within said medley (which, indecently, is why the Parades are so difficult if not contracted for a CD from the onset). Though I?m sure you would gladly pay $5,000 per CD, most would not. So, for the time being, I think we should refrain from any further discussion on the matter.


A Special Side Note:
If I may, and please understand that I?m trying to help you, but it would be in YOUR best interest to take some time to review your texts before you post them. I know that you have stated in the past that ?I type really fast?? but it is very, very, very difficult to read your posts without at least some form of sentence structure. If it is your desire to communicate your passion, you have to do it in a way that can be understood quickly and easily. Otherwise, your voice will be lost.

Randy Thornton

 

[Magic Music]

it would be in YOUR best interest to take some time to review your texts before you post them.

Aw, c'mon, Randy, how in the heck do you expect him to have time for something like that when he is busy wondering what Mr. Broughton is doing every minute of every day?!

Do you think Mr. Broughton would rather have ham in his sandwich than cheese? I'll bet complaining wouldn't do any good.

 

[Gurgitoy2]

In a medley, you can roughly multiply that sum by the number of songs within said medley (which, indecently, is why the Parades are so difficult if not contracted for a CD from the onset).

Which is kind of ironic, in that most parades are Disney medleys! Of course, that doesn't mean the rules can be broken, but I find it funny that even Disney has to pay $$ to release it's own music. But, people have to be paid for their work, so....

Though I'm sure you would gladly pay $5,000 per CD, most would not.

There is no way, on God's green earth, that I would EVER pay $5,000 for a CD! I would have a hard time paying $100 for one CD, even if it's "rare". And...wouldn't it be lovely if one person paid the $5,000, and then uploaded the stuff to share?? That would probably happen within hours, I'm afraid...

I don't know the answers to the questions you've asked. If I did a ride-thru, I might have that paperwork. But I didn't. If the composer himself cannot help you, I certainly can't. Just to be clear, I don't work on the attractions or have any involvement with WDI (or The Parks) beyond working with the audio for the Official Albums. To be perfectly honest, I have never ridden EEA (though I did ride Universe of Energy) so I know even less about this version than most on this forum.

By the way, thanks, Randy. I know this was aimed at Chris, but you answered one of my questions about how you create the ride-throughs. So, they do give you detailed info when you do the whole attraction.

 

[WDWGuy08]

Christopher,

I don't know the answers to the questions you've asked. If I did a ride-thru, I might have that paperwork. But I didn't. If the composer himself cannot help you, I certainly can't. Just to be clear, I don't work on the attractions or have any involvement with WDI (or The Parks) beyond working with the audio for the Official Albums. To be perfectly honest, I have never ridden EEA (though I did ride Universe of Energy) so I know even less about this version than most on this forum.

To your request and suggestion for easier releases ? wouldn't that be great! It Will NEVER Happen. EVER. Publishing costs MUST be paid. Union conversions MUST be paid. That is the law.

I'm going to give you one FINAL bit of info that I hope may give you some perspective. If EVERYONE (all 770) who signed your petition paid $100 a piece, that will still be just a tad short of paying the AFofM clearances for 1 (one, singular, uno) track. That figure would be for AFofM clearances alone and would not include Music Publishing, any AFTRA Talent, mastering, or manufacturing. That's also if the track is not a medley. In a medley, you can roughly multiply that sum by the number of songs within said medley (which, indecently, is why the Parades are so difficult if not contracted for a CD from the onset). Though I'm sure you would gladly pay $5,000 per CD, most would not. So, for the time being, I think we should refrain from any further discussion on the matter.


A Special Side Note:
If I may, and please understand that I'm trying to help you, but it would be in YOUR best interest to take some time to review your texts before you post them. I know that you have stated in the past that "I type really fast?" but it is very, very, very difficult to read your posts without at least some form of sentence structure. If it is your desire to communicate your passion, you have to do it in a way that can be understood quickly and easily. Otherwise, your voice will be lost.

Randy Thornton

hi randy,

ok, well thank you anyways, i appreciate it. i appreciate everything you do. so a cd of, say like, 10 individual tracks of music, not medleys, would cost more than $5,000.00?

 

[MiklCraw4d]

The Wedding March has never been included, nor has The Portrait Gallery or the Seance cues. Like the "Yo Ho" track, the "Grim Ginning Ghosts" track is an expansion of the song. The addition of the bride had no musical impact. If the tracks were actual ride-thrus, they would definitely be included. I also would have titled the tracks "Pirates of the Caribbean" and "The Haunted Mansion".

This is an interesting distinction that I had never thought of until this thread and I'm glad you brought it up. It's good to know how you draw the line between the two, even down to how the tracks are labeled. Of course it just makes me greedy to have your version of ridethrough megamixes now

PS - If you believe that a petition had or will ever have any sway in my decision-making-process, I've got some swampland in Florida to sell y... wait, that actually worked didn't it. Never mind.

So that's a no to my 7.1 THX home theater Food Rocks remix petition? Crap.

(note: above is a joke. please never make such a thing. but now that i think about it... 7.1 Country Bears or Kitchen Kabaret or Tiki Room... hmmmmmmm hehe)

cheers
Michael

 

[Horizons]

I'm going to give you one FINAL bit of info that I hope may give you some perspective. If EVERYONE (all 770) who signed your petition paid $100 a piece, that will still be just a tad short of paying the AFofM clearances for 1 (one, singular, uno) track. That figure would be for AFofM clearances alone and would not include Music Publishing, any AFTRA Talent, mastering, or manufacturing. That's also if the track is not a medley.

hi randy,

ok, well thank you anyways, i appreciate it. i appreciate everything you do. so a cd of, say like, 10 individual tracks of music, not medleys, would cost more than $5,000.00?

I think he already answered your question. 770 people @$100 CD = $77,000, which is just for part of the clearance fees of ONE track. 10 tracks would then run $770,000+.

 

[Forever Magic II]

Hey Randy,

Any chance of some new POTC or HM audio being released anytime soon. I spoke to a CM outside the mansion and he said most likely nothing for another 6months.

Luke

 

[MiklCraw4d]

To your request and suggestion for easier releases ? wouldn't that be great! It Will NEVER Happen. EVER. Publishing costs MUST be paid. Union conversions MUST be paid. That is the law.

I'm going to give you one FINAL bit of info that I hope may give you some perspective. If EVERYONE (all 770) who signed your petition paid $100 a piece, that will still be just a tad short of paying the AFofM clearances for 1 (one, singular, uno) track. That figure would be for AFofM clearances alone and would not include Music Publishing, any AFTRA Talent, mastering, or manufacturing. That's also if the track is not a medley. In a medley, you can roughly multiply that sum by the number of songs within said medley (which, indecently, is why the Parades are so difficult if not contracted for a CD from the onset).

I am occasionally amazed that anything ever gets done in the recording industry, ever. Not knowing anything of the legalities involved there's a great deal of "Greek" in your post, but it's obvious what an insane labyrinth the entire process is. Is the process this difficult for all of the music you typically use, or just the specific track you were discussing? One would think that, at this point, there would be some sort of legal forethought during the creation of new attractions to avoid such red tape. Could something (theoretically, of course) be done to streamline the process or is it just endemic to the territory? I've laughed at the quote in your signature before, and it's definitely true.

Also, this would seem to fall in line with your "nevah nevah evah" comment, but would that prohibition also extend to any theoretical far-future WDW box set? As an east-coaster whose interest is quite specifically WDW, I've long hoped that some day there would be a set as spectacular as your DL 50th set. While I'm not specifically sweating the Timekeeper in this instance, I'd hate to think that anything would be "out of bounds" for such a project.

Though I'm sure you would gladly pay $5,000 per CD, most would not. So, for the time being, I think we should refrain from any further discussion on the matter.

Indeed.

 

[MiklCraw4d]

I think he already answered your question. 770 people @$100 CD = $77,000, which is just for part of the clearance fees of ONE track. 10 tracks would then run $770,000+.

Give him time, I'm sure he'll come up with it.

 

[Magic Music]

so a cd of, say like, 10 individual tracks of music, not medleys, would cost more than $5,000.00?

Dude, you're going about this all wrong! As I write this, I'm sitting here listening to the full master recordings (with and without voice/effects) for Le Visionarium (France), Visionarium (Japan), and The Timekeeper (USA). Bruce Broughton sent the whole lot to me on CD-R right after I FedExed a crate of Trappiste Westvleteren 12 his way. Now, to be honest, Westvleteren can be hard to come by, so you might want to just send Randy a 24 oz box of Lucky Charms and see what it gets you.

 

[almandot]

In a medley, you can roughly multiply that sum by the number of songs within said medley (which, indecently, is why the Parades are so difficult if not contracted for a CD from the onset).

Which is kind of ironic, in that most parades are Disney medleys! Of course, that doesn't mean the rules can be broken, but I find it funny that even Disney has to pay $ to release it's own music. But, people have to be paid for their work, so....

And once again I want to slam my head against a wall for every time they let a parade go by where they said meh let's save a tiny bit of budget and not get the release rights right now. Randy I know you don't like to name names, but could we get some home mailing addresses and license plate numbers for any executives who might have been in charge of making that decision for Parade of Dreams?

 

[Randy Thornton]

Welcome Forever Magic II!

I actually explained both "Yo Ho" and "Grim Grinning Ghosts" earlier in this thread - pages 23 and 26 respectively. In short, there will be no update in the foreseeable future.

For MiklCraw4d,

That applies to recordings not recorded under a phono agreement. If releasing a recorded piece for film, attraction, or other non 'record' release, it's best to include a CD release in the initial contract for an additional fee (roughly 10% generally speaking). If not, and it is decided later that a CD release is desired, AFofM (American Federation of Musicians) rules dictate that 'New Use' fees are required. Which constitutes repaying the musicians as if it was recorded anew (100%). Considerably more than the additional fee I mentioned. There are discounts, but that would limit the number released, and once they're gone... they're gone. Personally, I'm not willing to short-change the future and thus making it even more impossible to release down the line. It's best to clear it forever. I should also set straight that it was not a short-sighted mistake to not include phono. Until the Official Albums evolved and became more inclusive, it was an unnecessary expense. Now, it's clear that there is a place for such recordings. And as of 2005, most attractions are recorded under a phono agreement. There are exceptions to this due to contractual negotiations with talent and artists, but it is part of the process now. This is also true for the Entertainment Divisions (Parades and Shows) as well [almandot] - sans the rare exceptions I mentioned earlier. Doesn't mean all will be released (not by a long shot), but it does open up the possibilities for more works. Also, this is not a retro-active thing. It's only as we move forward. Most of what was referred to in my post were pre-2005 recordings.

Hope that helps

Randy Thornton

 

[MiklCraw4d]

Hope that helps

It does indeed, Randy. I know that your ideal goal in communicating with the fan community probably wasn't to have to give in-depth legal analysis of the recording industry, but as an outsider I definitely appreciate you taking the time to explain its intricacies.

For pre-2005 works, and I'm thinking mostly of those golden oldies that always appeared on albums from 1980 forward, were fees paid upfront for tracks that were expected to be of interest or were they willing to just pay the 'New Use' fees considering they only used around a dozen or so tracks? I know that was well before your time, but it's interesting to see how these things evolve. I would have expected that Disney would have more control over those 'classic' ride tracks - Pirates, Mansion, etc. - that were recorded in-house. This also raises the question of whether you had to shell out the big bucks for each of those tracks on the 50th DL retrospective.

Needless to say, I'm glad that these things are now being taken into account. I thought that certainly there had to be some point in the creative and legal processes where these roadblocks could be avoided. Was there anything in particular about 2005 that specifically led to this change?

And it at least answers my question as to why I'm not listening to my 20-CD Walt Disney World megaset right now

thanks again for the explanations,
Michael

 

[Randy Thornton]

Before I go on, I should point out that my explanations for some of the ins and outs of the music business are just in the most general of terms. Like in music education, you start off with scales, then chords, then harmony. What I bring here is just the basic info. Each project is different and there are many variations. What I present are just the basic rules ? or guidelines.

Regarding the earlier recordings. There was a time, not too long ago, where there wasn?t such a varied way of distribution. You had Film/TV, Live Theatrical, and Records. When recordings like ?The Haunted Mansion? were done, there were no specifics in regards to theme park attractions. So the deals were written to the closest format. In this case ? records. ?America the Beautiful? however, was a film, so a film-sync license was used (which does not include record). Now with the proliferation of all kinds of formats, we have Theme Park Agreements (which now cover record release), Ring Tone Agreements, Film Sync, Home Entertainment, TV Sync, Digital Download, Toy, as well as various other forms of electronic media agreements.

Though some of the previous Official Albums encountered a New Use here and there, it was maybe a track or so a decade. That?s because the albums remained pretty static over the years. When I began to update the albums, I was requesting more and more material. Recordings that were never considered before were now being requested for album release ? why would you clear a recording for a record when no one had ever asked you to release it on record before. Now that there was an obvious use, and someone who was regularly asking, there was a need to work that into the initial agreements. Things evolved because of the need. Now, its just good sense to cover your bases as best you can (when you can). With technology changing at an ever-increasing rate, you never know what may be around the corner.

Randy

 

[JungleBumCT]

So say I record something for Disney a long time ago and today my work is highly requested for release. Disney didn't pay that additional fee back then, so they'd have to pay for the whole thing again now if they wanted to release it. What if I, as the artist, wanted my stuff released more than I wanted the money again? Can I waive this or demand a much lower fee? Is it even up to me?

Were I an artist, I think when it came down to it I'd probably go for a lesser profit if it meant my work could be released and widely enjoyed.

 

[almandot]

[Almandot is a magicmusic visitor, not a knowledgable union representative. So to help tell his story, we hired a famous celebrity]

Almandot:
As part of a union you couldn't accept lower than the minimum allowed by the union's scale pay probably. (And chances are that's what the majority of each artist is getting from Disney anyways ). But assuming they get paid more than scale usually, unless you were the sole recording artist(perhaps for a lovely rendition of the fantasyland BGM on kazoo), the composer, and did every other task involved in making the track it wouldn't be solely up to you to receive that minimum instead of what you normally ask for.

Kermit the Frog:
Hi ho, Kermit the Frog here reporting live at the homes of the 3 little disney recording artists where the big bad wolf has reportedly come to ask for his union fees.

 

[X-S Tech]

As someone said above, the fact that it's ever financially profitable to release any piece of music is almost unfathomable, considering all the people who have to be paid.

Randy, I'm under the impression that it's much cheaper to record under a phono agreement (is that the right term?) initially than to go back and pay for it later. Can you give us a typical ratio of cost between the two? I mean, is it 5 times more expensive to pay for it later? 10 times? Or does this have to do more with inflation etc... if you were trying to get older music released would it be more expensive than releasing music recorded 2 years ago, in this situation?

 

[almandot]

read a bit earlier in this thread and he gave a pretty good explanation of that. he said if you do it up front it's roughly 10% more, whereas if you go back and want to add it later you have to essentially pay 100% all over again as if you were recording it brand new

 

[stevek]

Has the 2008 DL album been submitted to the Gracenote CDDB yet? My iTunes doesn't recognize it yet. Anyone else have that issue?

 

[Turbollama]

Mine pulled up in iTunes immediately.