The Singing Harp Has Returned to Happy Valley (Long)

[micca]

While I am more interested in actual attraction soundtracks, I will be making my first visit to DL in 15 years next month, and I will purchase a few of these just to support the effort.

I also want to say how cool it is that Randy posts here and that there is someone in a position such as his who really has contact with the fans. Maximum respect Randy.

 

[JeffNOrangeCounty]

CM's are definitely going to have to be trained on this.
On Wednesday when I was there, the one kiosk they had loaded .. wasn't working. It was hung on a preview and basically there was no fixing it until after hours.

They were apologetic. (However that was a familiar refrain, Space, Splash and BTMt were closed. JCr and Pirates was shut down in the AM, RRabbit shut down in the PM.. No show at FLTheater ..on and on. Many folks were dazed wandering about trying to find something to ride! The park was so full it looked like a Sunday! Mr. Ouimett [or WeeMet] sure has his hands full with ride capacity issues! Everybody should be forewarned about travelling here until the 50th.
sorry .... rant ends here)

Thanks so MUCH Randy for the CD's. It's the best news out of Disneyland that I have heard in a long time.
Jeff in Orange County

 

[merlinjones]

and

Mary Martin Sings and Tells the Story of Sleeping Beauty

A Christmas Adventure in Disneyland

Songs Inspired by The Shaggy Dog

Songs from the Mickey Mouse Club Serials

Songs of Zorro and other TV Heroes

Songs From the Mickey Mouse Club

More Songs From the Mickey Mouse Club

Lady and the Tramp Camarata and Studio Cast

please

 

[narkspud]

No hurry on the Johnny La Padula album.

 

[mabel]

WOW!! Thank you so much, Randy!!! Now I know what I'm putting on my Christmas Wish List...

Some of those albums sound incredible. I am also excited to hear about "The Sounds of Disneyland" since I was far from completing my collection when the "Disneyland Forever" system was pulled.

Randy, thanks again for your dedication and hard work on this project!

 

[Imagineer]

Thank you again Randy.

 

[s8ntmark]

Wow! I just picked up Country Bear and I must say, it sounds great! (My first HAD to be Country Bear, It was my favorite when I was growing up) It also brings up 2 questions:

1. Randy did you add anything to the tracks when you remixed and remastered? I used to obsess over this album when I was a kid and not ONCE did I hear the Bee Hive buzzing when Gomer starts playing Pianjo (what a delightful track, the whole show sounds great, even in Mono)

and 2. Randy where is your restoration credit?? Credit where credit is due, I believe What a great job I cant wait to get and hear whats coming next!

Thank you!!

 

[SharonKurland]

As I wrote in another post, I just got back from a week on the Disney Magic. So I'm just finding out about this today.

HAPPY DANCE!!!

Randy and Trent...may I have your permission to reprint Randy's message about the new system over on themeparks.com and doombuggies.com?

Hope the new system comes to WDW really, really SOON!!!

-Sharon-

 

[Grinning Ghost]

Re:A Few Answers

A Few Answers

"Have the albums been added to or remixed in stereo?"
As a general rule, I believe that these albums should be released with the exact same content as it was originally released. The only time that I will add to the original Producers work is if I discover during research that something was omitted due to the time limitations on vinyl (as will be the case with The Disneyland Band Concert album coming soon). There has already been a situation where I had to completely rebuild an old master. In this first wave, two of the older masters were in terrible shape ? The Enchanted Tiki Room and The Country Bear Jamboree. For the Tiki Room, the entire show was remixed and rebuilt and is now in stereo (though the original vinyl release was mono) and does indeed included the Offenbach sequence (as well as a special surprise). The Adventurous Jungle Cruise (Tiki?s B Side) was in real good condition and only needed a little De-Noising. For The Country Bear Jamboree, the only elements available were mono (the original vinyl was also mono). However, the show portion of the new master has been completely remixed and restored. The B side, the Mile Long Bar, was also in great shape and only needed a little de-noising as well. Though some changes are made, I really want to remain true to the intention of the original Producers as well as provide the highest quality versions of their work.

I've had the opportunity to listen to three of these "restored" Lps, and they are not all completely restored - well not as good as they have the potential to be.

Small World is literally just the Lp master tape, still in mono, which sounds like it's worn out now. Lots of drop outs. My restored rip of the original 1964 World's Fair edition Lp sounds better, at least to me. Perhaps because the tape was still new when the Lp was made, although some of the tracks used then were of inferior quality to begin with, particularly the opening and closing chorus versions. Why haven't they been replaced with the newly restored versions made from the original recording sessions? I know they still exist, as I have copies and have recreated the original edits myself.

The Tiki Room has been redone in stereo and most of it sounds quite good, although it's not a complete rebuild and restoration. I can tell that portions came from the original DL Forever tracks, and it's a hodge-podge of at least three different versions cut together (one edit, immediately after the Hawaiian War Chant, is very noticeable. Two different copies were poorly cross-faded together, just slightly out of sync) - the sound quality and birds' placement varies. They suddenly switch sides mysteriously, and then go back to their original positions. Just listened to it again, and I can't find the "surprise" you mention. Other than a slightly different mix from the DLF version (most of it, anyway), it's identical to the one I assembled myself two years ago, and there really wasn't anything different about it. For all intents and purposes, this version and the DLF version match the original Lp edit. How about a hint on what the surprise is?

The Jungle Cruise is the best of the bunch I've heard so far. It sounds better than ever!

Hall of Presidents (the 1971 WDW Lp?) doesn't appear to have been restored at all. A lot of very noticeable tape hiss that could have been easily corrected, and it's a rather odd mix. Paul Frees is on the extreme left, when (at least while he's the narrator) he should be in the center. Lincoln is stuck on the extreme right, when he, too, should be front and center. His speech obscures the stereo underscore. (My copy of the Lp is mono, so I don't know if that is the original mix. Haven't had a chance to compare the two yet.) "Battle Hymn" is very muffled. That may be my next restoration project. (I've just finished a major restoration of The Haunted Mansion audio, and built an entirely new ride-through from scratch, correcting most of the mistakes on the 30th Anniversary CD. Perhaps you've heard it?) I've already restored portions of "Great Moments" from the World's Fair box set, and they now sound quite brilliant and almost no tape hiss. (Still need to do some tweaking, as Lincoln's speech is entirely too low in volume, and I've learned some new tricks since working on it last year.)

So, speaking of the Haunted Mansion, will the original 1969 Lp be made available once again? I hope you will be able to remove most of the tape hiss, or better still, rebuild it from the original recording sessions. It would be easy to duplicate. I was able to duplicate some portions of it exactly from my restored tracks, but as the rest of the recording came from the cassette edition, the quality is still lacking even though I've done some restoration on it. Better still, how about an entirely new and fully restored CD for the Mansion's 35th Anniversary?

I commend and thank you for your efforts on this project! But please, couldn't we get better sound quality? It certinly is possible. Also, I understand that you wish to preserve the integrity of the original albums, but how about including some bonus material after the original Lp material? It would certainly increase sales, and make us very happy!

Grinning Ghost

 

[johndunk]

I have a question about the Country Bear Jamboree. The complete show has been available in mono, but the Bear Band Serenade which appears on many theme park albums is in stereo. I know this version is an alternate take or was done at a different time. Does anyone know any history on this. I am wondering if any more of the show was done like this? I can't wait to come to California from New Jersey and go back loaded down with all those CDs.

 

[narkspud]

Re:A Few Answers

I commend and thank you for your efforts on this project! But please, couldn't we get better sound quality? It certinly is possible.

I only have two of these CDs so far, and not the ones you referred to, but I think you may be expecting too much. These CDs are being sold one-at-a-time in one location worldwide, and all are coming from (I suspect) one lone CD burner, and not a terribly reliable one at that. And much as we'd like to think the rest of the world is as excited about these things as we are, the fact is they're not. Disney'll be lucky to sell a few hundred a month. Total, for all 40 titles. And few of the purchasers are going to care about, or even notice, the minor sonic flaws.

Yeah, they could've run my two CDs through lots of high-tech gadgets that could've removed every last vestige of tape hiss, spent hours patching every single dropout, spent days scouring the vaults for the original first generation session tapes for a full reconstruction, but why? It would've been a waste of money, and the kind of restoration work you're talking about doesn't come cheap. And I'm sure you're aware that there are differing opinions on how much "fixing" is too much. I cringe when I hear the damage that is done to some classic recordings in the name of improving them (Richard Carpenter, anyone?).

My biggest fear when I heard about these CDs was that they'd be half-baked restoration jobs with overfiltering, added reverb, and all the other "improvements" made when audio engineers get carried away with their toys. I was delighted to hear that it wasn't the case on the two I purchased.

The Hall of Presidents stereo vinyl, IIRC, sounds very much as you've described--extreme left-right panning and lots of tape hiss.

As for CBJ (referring to johndunk's post), please check again on that "Bear Band Serenade." I've NEVER heard it in stereo outside the attraction itself, and that includes the theme park compilation LPs and CDs in my collection (which admittedly ain't all of them). If it IS in stereo somewhere, I wish you'd tell me where!

 

[GrizzlyHall]

I, too, would die to hear CBJ in stereo soundtrack. It does exist in stereo in the TOKYO version (the Tokyo Official Album, I mean).

As for Bear Band Serenade on 75 Years/Official Albums, it's actually a mistake take. Henry sings, "The Bear Bear Bands will. . . " instead of the actual, "The Bear Band Bears will play now. . . ".

No chance of "Pretty Little Devilish Mary" or "If Ya Can't Bite, Don't Growl" being the actual versions, eh?

Very excited, indeed!

 

[GrizzlyHall]

I, too, would die to hear CBJ in stereo soundtrack. It does exist in stereo in the TOKYO version (the Tokyo Official Album, I mean).

As for Bear Band Serenade on 75 Years/Official Albums, it's actually a mistake take. Henry sings, "The Bear Bear Bands will. . . " instead of the actual, "The Bear Band Bears will play now. . . ".

No chance of "Pretty Little Devilish Mary" or "If Ya Can't Bite, Don't Growl" being the actual versions, eh?

Very excited, indeed!

 

[s8ntmark]

Narkspud, the one Bear Band Serenade track on the WDW OA is a stereo track, but that just means they rebuilt that from the original sessions tracks and reassigned the instruments to various speakers, Do they really want to go back and remix the whole ALBUM that way??

Actually, I hope so

Ill listen to it again today and let you know if Im just hearing things.

 

[MattOrkin]

I have to say I enjoy the extreme right and left stereo, so I can isolate the background music(at least with Lincoln).

Just my nickel

 

[Michael Zielski]

For the record(no pun intended), and at the risk of being branded an uneducated non-audiophile, I can't see myself obsessing over excessive tape hiss, or improperly balanced sound; I'm still just basking in the glow of the Walt Disney Company giving the go-ahead to this wonderful project. The vinyl vaults have been opened, and some dusty treasures are now being readied for digital preservation, to the delight of long-time fans, and hopefully some new listeners, who will be introduced to some classic sounds.

If I can at least enjoy these classic recordings without the "snap, crackle, pop" of old vinyl, so I won't have to worry if my next record purchase will turn out to actually be a G instead of a VG++, that's a significant step forward for me. At this point in time, I simply don't have the resources or time to professionally "clean-up" my own vinyl recordings.

My hat's definitely off to Randy Thornton's valiant efforts--now let's just get those CD-burning machines working a little more effectively than as been reported so far!

Mike

 

[Grinning Ghost]

Re:A Few Answers

I only have two of these CDs so far, and not the ones you referred to, but I think you may be expecting too much. These CDs are being sold one-at-a-time in one location worldwide, and all are coming from (I suspect) one lone CD burner, and not a terribly reliable one at that. And much as we'd like to think the rest of the world is as excited about these things as we are, the fact is they're not. Disney'll be lucky to sell a few hundred a month. Total, for all 40 titles. And few of the purchasers are going to care about, or even notice, the minor sonic flaws.

Yeah, they could've run my two CDs through lots of high-tech gadgets that could've removed every last vestige of tape hiss, spent hours patching every single dropout, spent days scouring the vaults for the original first generation session tapes for a full reconstruction, but why? It would've been a waste of money, and the kind of restoration work you're talking about doesn't come cheap. And I'm sure you're aware that there are differing opinions on how much "fixing" is too much. I cringe when I hear the damage that is done to some classic recordings in the name of improving them (Richard Carpenter, anyone?).

My biggest fear when I heard about these CDs was that they'd be half-baked restoration jobs with overfiltering, added reverb, and all the other "improvements" made when audio engineers get carried away with their toys. I was delighted to hear that it wasn't the case on the two I purchased.

The Hall of Presidents stereo vinyl, IIRC, sounds very much as you've described--extreme left-right panning and lots of tape hiss.

Well, what I've heard so far *is* a half-baked restoration. You make the restoration/noise reduction process sound extremely difficult, which it really is not with today's software. It's actually quite easy to do, particularly if you have access to the original source material. If it had been twenty years ago, then yes - I would agree with you.

In the case of Small World, the audio has already been beautifully restored and was returned to its rightful place in the ride last July. If Winston Hibler's narration and the original children's "quack-quack" source tracks can be located, the entire Lp could be re-created in about a day or two. If I had all the Small World tracks used on the Lp, I could reassemble it exactly the same as the original Lp, and no one would be able to tell the difference, other than the improved sound quality and stereo sound. I know, because I've been doing similar work nearly every day for the last two years. I restored the unreleased four-disc 1964 World's Fair box set in about a week of evenings, and even added some mixes to it. Just reducing the tape hiss made a dramatic improvement. Unfortunately, not all of the Small World loops were included in that collection.

It's taken me two years to collect and restore all the Haunted Mansion tracks I have, but that's because they were in pretty poor condition when I got them, and as most came from cassette tapes, the speed of each one varied and had to be painstakingly corrected and matched to the others, and there are over 60 tracks! I also had to do a lot of research to find out just where everything goes, since I don't have access to the ride. Rebuilding the ride-through only took a few evenings once everything was ready. If I had access to the source material, I could have finished the whole thing in about a month, maybe less. And all on a little blue five-year-old iMac. No high-tech gadgets or equipment are necessary. Just some restoration software, a pair of headphones - and a good ear.

In the case of remastering an existing recording, you already know what goes where and how it's supposed to sound, and it's a simple matter to replicate it - if you have all of the originals at hand.

I expected to hear restored versions of my favorite old Lps. The Jungle Cruise is a perfect example of what I expected to hear. Someone took the time (about an hour) to remove the tape hiss. It sounds better than ever. The irony is that it's usually fans' least favorite recording, yet sounds the best! The Tiki Room sounds great as well, but it's got some editing flubs. The Hall of Presidents/Great Moments has so much hiss that it's distracting and annoying - and could be easily remedied - without ruining the sound quality as you seem to fear. Not what I expect from professionals. If I'm going to pay for it, I expect decent quality! Other record companies do it with original 78 rpm masters from the 1940s, and they sound wonderful - not overly-filtered or full of reverb as they once had been in the 1960s electronic stereo age. These recordings were made mostly in the 1960s, and the technology was not nearly as primitive as in the 40s. I do it for them for free if they'd let me.

I also expected reproductions of the original booklets that came with the records, not just a single card with the cover art.

My expectations aren't too high. It's reasonable to expect that, at the very least, tape hiss is significantly reduced and that overall, they should sound better than their Lp counterparts. It's not difficult. I guess I'll just have to do it myself.

Grinning Ghost

 

[Louis Gonzalez]

From what I've heard, the CDs sound WONDEFUL. There will always be someone who has to complain about some minute detail. As far as I know (and I have all the LPs), the CDs are a VAST improvement over the LP masters (which I've also heard and trust me, they weren't pretty). Before you critizise the CDs, please go back to the LPs and listen to what those sound like...then compare that to the new CDs. You will find your listening experience to be a great one. They could have just released the masters as they were: MONO, hiss, etc., but intead someone (Randy) made an effort to improve them without changing them.
Rebuilt the Small Word LP in one day? Give me a *!!%*** break! That really made me laugh. Do you have any idea how much time, money and effort it would cost to even search for those elements? Do you realize how vast the audio archives are? The chances that something like the Winston Hibler narration existing as a separate element are slim to none. All the can go on is the masters for the LP which were made in the 50s and 60s for a less discerning public.
The truth of the matter is that 99.99% of the people who buy these will be impressed by the sound quality. I'm an audio tech myself and I'm very happy with the new CDs.
The way I see it, the glass is half FULL.

Your friend,
Louis

PS: There are those who will always see the negative in anything thrown at them no matter how small, and overlook the positive no matter how big. There are those... Are we really having this serious, in-dept discussion about Mickey Mouse CDs? There must be more serious issue to debate. Thanks, Randy, for your efforts! Keep them coming!!!

 

[Grinning Ghost]

From what I've heard, the CDs sound WONDEFUL. There will always be someone who has to complain about some minute detail. As far as I know (and I have all the LPs), the CDs are a VAST improvement over the LP masters (which I've also heard and trust me, they weren't pretty). Before you critizise the CDs, please go back to the LPs and listen to what those sound like...then compare that to the new CDs. You will find your listening experience to be a great one. They could have just released the masters as they were: MONO, hiss, etc., but intead someone (Randy) made an effort to improve them without changing them.
Rebuilt the Small Word LP in one day? Give me a *!!%*** break! That really made me laugh. Do you have any idea how much time, money and effort it would cost to even search for those elements? Do you realize how vast the audio archives are? The chances that something like the Winston Hibler narration existing as a separate element are slim to none. All the can go on is the masters for the LP which were made in the 50s and 60s for a less discerning public.

Yes, I could reassemble the Small World Lp in just a day. It's incredibly easy to do. Just paste each track in, match the fades on the Lp, pop in the narration and it's done! I already have some of the original recording sessions, and have remastered those and made exact re-creations. No sweat. I do this stuff almost every day. It's easy! Why do you have difficulty believing that?

You've misread my post, apparently. The Small World audio has *already* been restored. The hard part is already done. All that's needed is the narration and the original "quacking" track. All the other audio elements have already been found. I had already started to re-do the whole Lp when I found that I didn't have all of the elements. I was going to sync-up the stereo versions of the music to the Lp itself, bringing up the Lp only at the points where the narration was. It was going well until I got to the bagpipes, and realized I didn't have all of that loop, nor the children's version of the geese that was later replaced with a sound effect. So I scrapped the project. I didn't say anything about changing the edit, just rebuild it, or at least the opening and closing. It can be done so that no one would be the wiser. You don't seem to have a problem with the fact that the Tiki Room was redone in stereo, so why not Small World? Your argument would make sense if the restoration work had not already been done.

On an interesting side note, you can hear someone tapping their foot in time to the music on the children's vocals - something that's not audible once the music and the adult vocals are mixed in. And I also discovered that Thurl Ravenscroft and the Mellow Men are in the adult chorus - the same adult chorus heard in Great Moments and again with the Mellow Men in the Ford pavilion at the World's Fair (Get the Feel of the Wheel of a Ford).

And I have compared the CD of Small World with the Lp, and my *restored* copy of the *original* 1964 Lp (not a later reissue) sounds better, such as it is. They didn't use good quality copies of the opening and closing choral versions of the song to begin with back then and the Lp master seems to have more drop-outs today than it did in 1964. The points in between the opening and closing numbers sound just fine.

No contest on the Tiki Room Lp - that truly was hideous. But like I said, The Jungle Cruise does sound way better than the Lp. However, last night I played my own version of the Tiki Room assembled from the Forever tracks, and this new version simultaneously. (One played in Quicktime Player, the other in iTunes.) This allowed me to pick out which portions had actually been rebuilt and which were pulled directly from the Forever tracks. There is still no "special surprise" in there as Randy had claimed, not that I can find. My chief complaint was with a couple of bad edits and a lack of continuity with the placement of the principle cast - they keep changing sides, which they shouldn't, since they are anchored to their perches in the show. The sound quality is good.

So why wasn't the minimal effort given to the Jungle Cruise also given to Great Moments? There's no excuse for leaving all that hiss in there.

Find yourself a copy of "The Haunted Mansion Unauthorized 34th Anniversary Edition" 2-CD set if you want to hear some things I've worked on - without the benefit of having access to the original recordings, and that was way more complex than the Small World Lp. It can be readily found if you know where to look.

GG

 

[s8ntmark]

Oh MAN!! The WDW OA Bear Band Serenade IS a mono track!! I cant believe it, I would have wagered the souls of children I was so sure....

It still sounds amazing though, but wow I was so sure, I could have sworne it sounded stereo, maybe it was just the superior remix and remaster job...

Blah