williamtaylor1969: Bootlegger, Recaster


eyore

DLRP explorer
Premium Member
Playlist Author
They are still there.
Maybe I should ask those on MB to help.
The more the merrier.
 

Magic Music

Administrator
Playlist Author
Interestingly, some of cargosupplyhq's listings that had been pulled (e.g., the Indiana Jones Attraction CD at the top of this thread), are now back online and visible to all as 'Closed,' rather than 'Removed.'

I can't say for sure what is going on, but from the looks of it, eBay's policy is to pull infringing items the first couple of times, but then effectively ignore any complaints that are received after that.

Take a look at the e-mail that eBay sends out after a bootleg recording has been reported:

Subject: Thank You for Your Report (Community Watch)
From: eBay Customer Support

We will review the listing(s) you have reported for violations of our Recordable Media Policy. We often rely on members like you to bring such violations to our attention.

In light of eBay's privacy policy, we cannot share with you any action taken by eBay with respect to this listing. If we determine that the listing violates this policy, we will remove the listing or suspend the seller. Account suspensions are usually reserved for those sellers that repeatedly disregard policy.

If the item you reported does not appear on its face to violate this policy, [background=yellow]we may refer it to the intellectual property rights owner for review. If the rights owner has a good faith belief that the item is infringing, they may choose to send eBay a formal request to remove the listing.[/background] For more information on eBay's cooperation with rights owners, please visit:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/programs-vero-ov.html

For more information on eBay's Recordable Media Policy, please visit:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/recordable.html

Thank you for your report.

Regards,

The eBay Community Watch Team
Note the part that I have highlighted. This is eBay's loophole for washing their hands of the situation. Should they hear back from the copyright holder, they will cancel the auction, otherwise they will let it run its course and collect their listing and final value fees.

We all know that Disney Legal works (doesn't work) in mysterious ways. Our bootlegger can put his kids through college before Disney gets around to doing anything.

Hey, Horizons, want to get into the record business with me? Supertrack Records has already been taken by our good friend and fellow entrepreneur, cargosupplyhq. What do you think about Marauder Music for our name?
 

eyore

DLRP explorer
Premium Member
Playlist Author
Just looked at the Indiana Jones CD and it isn't marked as closed.
It's still listed as normal.
item 250428088134

I've emailed the guy with this:

Is this an "Official CD". I didn't see it for sale in the parks at all and the cast members don't recall ever having sold it either (or the other park CDs you have on offer).
Are they home made compilations?
I can't find any reference on the Internet to the original (now closed)company that you say made it either.
I'll let you know if I get a reply and share it with you
 

Magic Music

Administrator
Playlist Author
Just looked at the Indiana Jones CD and it isn't marked as closed.
It's still listed as normal.
item 250428088134
That is the new listing that he put up the night before last. The Indiana Jones Attraction CD that was first reported here was pulled by eBay. Now, inexplicably, that listing is visible again but marked as a closed (i.e., "Bidding has ended for this item") auction.

I've emailed the guy
If he's dumb enough to expose his e-mail address in the reply that you receive, be sure to pass it on to us.

A few of us should buy all of his CD-Rs, they're only $9, post negative feedback stating they're CD-R boots to warn other buyers, and then mail his original envelopes and their contents to Disney Legal and/or the RIAA. That should wake up a few people.
 

eyore

DLRP explorer
Premium Member
Playlist Author
No email address but here's his reply.
As I have never been to the US parks, I'll have to let you inform me how much of this is Moonshine as he does make it sound very plausible.


Dear xxxxx

Hello! Oh, Yes! If you ask any of the CMs if they remember the kiosks out in the park about 10-12 years ago, those were run by "supertrack" records. When the kiosks were closed, all of the extra stock went to various stores throughout the park, mainly Disneyana. They had a special kiosk situated directly across from the Indy Jones ride, on opening day, I was there! There were total of about 20 CD sets that were produced. They started off with the old Haunted Mansion record from the 60's, but then they started to produce NEW versions of the attractions, which, in my opinion, were MUCH better. You may have seen the HM and Pirates CDs in the parks. These copies are what was sold at the kiosks, NOT the special Disney records versions of those two attractions, which are now also out of print! Thanks for looking at my aucitons, Bill
Not OUR Bill, I hope

he does, at least, admit they are copies.

I'm also getting The Indiana Jones as a very active sale - certainly not bidding has closed - just asks me to enter my bid over $9 with 5 days 4 hours to go. It does seem to know I am in the UK as it mentions the shipping to the UK.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...E:X:RTQ:US:1123

Possibly they display differently for different countries? ie blocked in the US but not the UK?
 

Magic Music

Administrator
Playlist Author
If you ask any of the CMs if they remember the kiosks out in the park about 10-12 years ago, those were run by "supertrack" records.
RedDotNet.

Where did he get the Disneyland Paris CD-Rs from? What about the Star Trek CD-Rs? The Haunted Mansion 40th Anniversary (this year!) CD-R?

I can't speak for Disneyland's CD-Rs, but the ones that were produced for the Walt Disney World Forever kiosks were burned onto Kodak Gold CD-Rs and had plain black titles printed on them. What do his CD-Rs look like?

Looking at his ads, with the exception of The Enchanted Tiki Room, we can see that he is using homemade artwork for the covers. Disney certainly never sold anything that said "Disney Resorts presents..." using the freeware Waltograph font. As for the Star Trek CD-Rs, no commercially available Star Trek sound effects CDs have featured the artwork that he is showing.

Look at the other items the guy is selling: phony book covers and Star Trek stickers that he is no doubt printing up at home.

How does he explain having multiple copies of these CD-Rs? He has sold dozens of copies based on his history.

Disneyland sold the RedDotNet CD-Rs for $20 plus tax. This guy thought it was a great idea to buy up loads of them in 1998-2000, hold onto them until 2009, and then sell them for as little as $9 each minus eBay/PayPal fees?

All of this is moot, anyway...

If you look at eBay's policy concerning recordable media, it states that you cannot sell anything unless you are the actual copyright holder. This means that you can not sell an actual Disneyland/RedDotNet CD-R even if you have one.

From eBay:

Recordable Media

[background=yellow]Only copyright owners, or the copyright owners' licensees, are permitted to list their products copied onto recordable media (such as VHS tapes, Audio tapes, CD-Rs and DVD-Rs) on eBay. Sellers listing any type of recordable media must state their copyright ownership or license to resell these items in their listings.[/background]

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:
  • [background=yellow]Listing cancellation[/background]
  • Limits on account privileges
  • [background=yellow]Account suspension[/background]
  • Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
  • Loss of PowerSeller status
Some Examples:

The following are examples of items that may not be listed on eBay:
  • Music compilations on CD-R
  • The entire first season of a television series on one DVD-R
  • Compilation of 500 "freeware" and "shareware" programs on one CD-R
  • A VHS copy of a movie taped off of television
  • CD-Rs containing scanned pages from a book, magazine, manual or other copyrighted written materials that were not written by the seller
The following example illustrates a specific situation:
  • A local band decides to release its latest album on CD-R. The band may list the album on eBay as long as the listing states that the seller is the copyright owner, and the seller is prepared to prove this to eBay.
  • [background=yellow]A buyer purchases an album on eBay that was released by a local band on CD-R. The buyer may not list the album on eBay, even though the band released the album on CD-R, because the buyer is not the copyright owner.[/background]
eBay: Recordable Media
 

eyore

DLRP explorer
Premium Member
Playlist Author
I wasn't suggesting what he said was true, only that to other purchasers it may sound convincing.
Maybe we can reword our complaints in light of his reply?
Yes, he admits they are copies BUT did these things ever exist at all (I doubt it myself). I have a feeling that they are compilations of stuff freely available that he's put together rather than copies from these so-called (and seemingly invisible) kiosks.
I, for instance, wouldn't know if they existed or not.
The more we can catch him out, the more chance of getting him banned, I think.
How about everyone else emailing him via Ebay and asking him searching questions as a seemingly "eager" buyer?
Let's give him enough rope..............
 

X-S Tech

Active Member
His story about the Disneyland kiosks is complete bunk. They were run, like WDW, by RedDot http://www.reddotnet.com/ not this supertrack he mentions, http://www.supertracks.nl/ . A simple look at the covers of any of the CD's will show the reddot logo. I don't remember the dates but I know the kiosks in Tomorrowland shut down first, then the ones in Main St. The ones in Main St remained in place though, with dark screens, while the Tomorrowland ones were removed completely. The Main St ones were then repurposed as part of the Wonderland Music Store. Red Dot was not involved but I don't know if it was still an outside company or wholly in house. There were never any other kiosks around the park, nothing in front of Indiana Jones like he says. A few preburned discs may have been sold elsewhere in the park, but there were only 2 or 3 Indy tracks ever offered, so there wouldn't have been enough to fill a whole disc. There has been for years however several dozen Indy tracks floating around the internet so there's really no mystery as to where he got the content.
 

Magic Music

Administrator
Playlist Author
Keep on hitting the 'Report this item' link at the bottom of his listings, folks!

Current item numbers you can copy/paste into report:

250428073500, 250428074769, 250428077320, 250428084924, 250428086498, 250428088134, 250428091390, 250428092568, 250428095307
 

Gurgitoy2

Active Member
Wow, I have to admire his yarn-spinning ability! That's quite a tale he's created to justify his selling bootlegs. Others are correct that very little of his story is true. The only part you could actually pull out of there that's accurate is that at one point in time Disneyland had kiosks where you could create your own CD's...that's about it.

For new readers here, or people who didn't really know much about the Disneyland or Walt Disney World Forever system, or it's predecessor Wonderland Music, here are a few details to remember when reading "explanations" like this guy's on Ebay or anywhere else. Oh, and I can assure you that "Bill" is not THE "Bill".

First thing...Indy opened in 1995, and the kiosks didn't appear until 1998...3 years after the attraction opened. So, there was never a kiosk near the attraction at any point in time. I can tell you first hand since I was there on opening day and many times after during it's first year of operation. I can also say that I made use of the Disneyland and Walt Disney World Forever kiosks in their first year of operations and got almost everything off the systems that was available.

Second thing...Supertrack records is not who ran the kiosks. As X-S Tech said, it was RedDotNet. And their logo was on every CD that was burned...at least on the cover art. Also, there were only 2 non-kiosk CD's that they produced and sold at the park. The first was the limited Haunted Mansion 30th anniversary disc...and that was basically right before the kiosks opened at Disneyland. The second one was the Pirates of the Caribbean 33rd anniversary disc. Both of those are still being sold (in slightly edited forms) by WDR at the parks now.

Third, there were some pre-made Disneyland Forever CD's that were sold around the park, but they were not attraction specific, and had the same cover art as any other CD you would have burned at the time...just a different title. There were 2 "pre-recorded" ones available. One was "Disneyland's Greatest Hits (Summer 1998)", and the other was "A Musical Tour of Disneyland". You didn't have to wait to have these burned as they were already made and sitting by the cash registers or on a shelf.

Here is a great site all about both DL and WDW systems. I used this site extensively when I went to create my own CD's. I'm glad it's still there, and you can see exactly what tracks were made available from the systems so you can tell who is selling bootlegs or not.

http://www.emuck.com/~rufus/forever/

Anyway, this guy sure makes his story convincing, and even I doubted at first that there wasn't an Indy CD available in '95...but then I figured I wasn't crazy...this guy was just full of it.

I'm also sorry to see that at a certain point Ebay will wash their hands of it and let the license holders do the chasing down. Like Jay said, we all know how long Disney waits on these things. This guy will make a lot more money before anybody cares enough to stop him.
 

Gurgitoy2

Active Member
Oh, and as for the Wonderland Music System that came after the Forever system, that was not handled by RedDotNet, but by WDR. Randy had involvement in getting lots of restored material on there. The thing about the newer system was that it was, in fact, reissues of old WDR records. The auctioneer is full of crap when he says the were not copies of the records. The Enchanted Tiki Room and Pirates discs for which he copied the LP cover art, were actually released on the Wonderland system, BUT they were the LP versions...so yeah, he's lying about that part.

There was a big difference in how the 2 kiosk systems operated too. The Forever system let you pick your own 10 track CD in any order you wished. The Wonderland system consisted of only pre-selected albums that were basically reissues of older LP's and CD's from WDR's history. There was no customization availible. It made things much easier. I remember spending hours creating those darn DLF CD's....even with my pre-prepared lists of arrangements I wanted.
 

Magic Music

Administrator
Playlist Author
I'm also sorry to see that at a certain point Ebay will wash their hands of it and let the license holders do the chasing down. Like Jay said, we all know how long Disney waits on these things. This guy will make a lot more money before anybody cares enough to stop him.
If cargosupplyhq is a member here, or if one of our members knows this guy, I suggest he gets the CD-Rs off of eBay pronto. I'm going to go ahead and buy a couple/few. "Bill" is really not going to like what happens after that.
 

eyore

DLRP explorer
Premium Member
Playlist Author
Good.
It is, alas, only by actually obtaining one or more of these that the matter can finally be settled (ie that they are home made bootlegs even though we all know they are).
Nothing like getting some solid evidence. :lol:
 

Magic Music

Administrator
Playlist Author
I have received a reply from GNP Crescendo Records concerning cargosupplyhq's Star Trek CD-Rs. They will be sending eBay a Verified Rights Ownership (VeRO) form in order to get the listings pulled. (See my [post="30279"]post[/post] above about eBay's policy concerning recordable media and copyright owners/licensees.) I guess GNP operates faster than Disney.

Nothing like getting some solid evidence.
Not to mention a name, address, and telephone number for "Bill."
 

Gurgitoy2

Active Member
I have received a reply from GNP Crescendo Records concerning cargosupplyhq's Star Trek CD-Rs. They will be sending eBay a Verified Rights Ownership (VeRO) form in order to get the listings pulled. (See my [post="30279"]post[/post] above about eBay's policy concerning recordable media and copyright owners/licensees.) I guess GNP operates faster than Disney.
Now, I have a question about this. Once GNP supplies Ebay with the Verified Right's Ownership form...then what happens? What I mean is will Ebay then suspend all of his auctions of that material, or will they do as they've been doing by just suspending one, and "Bill" is free to list another one? How will they police that?
 

superdave913

New Member
Now, I have a question about this. Once GNP supplies Ebay with the Verified Right's Ownership form...then what happens? What I mean is will Ebay then suspend all of his auctions of that material, or will they do as they've been doing by just suspending one, and "Bill" is free to list another one? How will they police that?
I would imagine that now it is on GNP's "radar," they will hopefully keep an eye out for this guy.

For those keeping score at home... I filed a report yesterday and today with eBay.
 

X-S Tech

Active Member
I assume they would close his account. I would think they would even be within their rights to dissallow new accounts to be registered from his email or IP address.
 

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