Treasure Planet

[Jeff N Orange Coun]

If you recall your history, Sleeping Beauty had a similar reputation as TP upon opening. It may be that years from now TP will have a classic feel to it.
One of the problems is oversatuation of the genre. It makes folks think "Oh this again" instead of "Oh how cool".
Jeff

 

[Michael Zielski]

Most assuredly, frustrating times. Our frustration stems from our dream of the Walt Disney Company as it was, headed by Walt himself. Of course Walt's vision, too, had to be tempered by the confines of the company's current finances, but the driving force was always the vision; simply stated, that just isn't the case today.

As Bill referred to earlier, Walt was always looking to the future, ready for the next step; he certainly would have investigated the possibilities of computer imagery, while at the same time recognizing its limitations, and ultimately finding a suitable place for it in his vision. He wouldn't have sacrificed his more traditonal endeavors, the very foundation of his dream. He wouldn't have stumbled down an alternative path, chasing an ever fickle audience, guided by dollar signs, while his artistry ultimately suffered.

Maybe we should just wait this one out a little longer, and let some of the recent debris settle out. Then maybe someone, or some people, with a heart and a soul, will once again realize the simple value of a beautifully drawn image, painted with fantastic characters--and beautiful songs. Then, like the phoenix in the recent Harry Potter film, the Walt Disney Company can rise again from the ashes to realize our dream once again.......or is that too much of a fairy tale? Mike.

 

[deviantman]

Am I to understand that Disney is going to kill its 65 year tradition of 2D aminated films? That is incredibly stupid, idiotic and sad that it has come to this. After years of staggered production so that there is a new film every year, Disney animation comes to a dead stop?
Impossible, what kind of world is this? So treasure planet is not a blockbuster, big deal. That by no means requires Disney to give up animation and resort to Pixar only. The only 3D mickey Mouse I want to see is the costumed one at the Amusement park or in a game on my Playstation...

Treasure Planet may be a misfire but so was The Black Cauldron which took eight years to complete. So from what I assertain from how Disney needs to make money, they should cut back on the animated opuses for a while. If money is more important than imangineered animative genius, then release a new animated film every three years, but don't kill 2D animation.

Killing 2D animation is like dancing on Walt's grave.

Don't do it!

 

[will]

Well until we see an article in NEWSWEEK or TIME or USATODAY we shouldn't jump to conclusions. If they let all of their 2D animators go, then who is working on the films in the 'pipeline' like "SWEATING BULLETS" or whatever the title is? They just fired everyone and ate the production cost? I seriously doubt Roy Disney would cut his uncles film contributions over the many years and hand it all over to Jeffery Kattzenberg at Dreamworks without a fight.

 

[SFMike]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents. I really enjoyed Treasure Planet and encourage everyone to see it. You can really see the technical progression from Tarzan of the deep paint process and I think it?s stunning. I also thought the dramatic impact of some of the scenes between Jim and Silver to be extremely well animated. I feel that Treasure Planet will go down as another classic animated film that wasn't successful on initial release.

The only misstep in my opinion was the lame rock ballad by John Rzeznik. It just seemed out of place from the excellent score by James Newton Howard and that guy?s voice is so "garage" that I couldn't understand all the words. It also wasn't even close to sounding like Jim's voice. Was it supposed to be the radio station in his head? It seems that the director is either trying to be hip and with it or trying to sell "soundtrack" albums by using a studio contract star at the instigation of the marketing department. I find it an embarrassing sequence in an otherwise great animated film.

 

[Dirk]

Hey there, Hi there, Ho there,

I'd like to stress the same point as SFMike: I really loved TP and want to urge anybody to go and see the movie now on the big screen - not because every penny more earned with the movie may help the future of animation, but because I really enjoyed the movie. Like never in the last years (not even in Monsters or Toy Story) the time in the theater raced by as I was really totally drawn into the story. The characters are really wonderful developed and we finally got to see emotional interaction and progression in a way NO movie from Pixar and none of the recent Disney animated features delivered.

OK, the story is well known, but thanks to the really great looking animation (which is the best of the recent animated features) and the clever combination of 2D and 3D-animation which made it real looking where necessary for great impact (the universe, the cyborg elements) but also kept it warm and a bit fuzzy where necessary , and not at least a wonderful score it really caught me...

Which brings me to the last topic I want to mention.

SFMike says:
>>
The only misstep in my opinion was the lame rock ballad by John Rzeznik. It just seemed out of place from the excellent score by James Newton Howard and that guy?s voice is so "garage" that I couldn't understand all the words. It also wasn't even close to sounding like Jim's voice. Was it supposed to be the radio station in his head?

 

[Jeff N Orange Coun]

Dirk and Mike bring up interesting points.

I agree with Dirk but I find the criticism of many here John Reznik a little high handed. In TP's "skateboard" scene you NEED a rock song and JR did provide one. He has a pedigree with the Goo Goo Dolls, not one of my favorites, but a rocker nonetheless. It wasn't as moving as say Tarzan's tree-skating scene with Son of Man playing, but I am sure thats what they had in mind.

Here is an interview with Rezinek below:
http://www.ascap.com/musicbiz/rzeznik.htmll

 

[X-S Tech]

To clarify, it is not Treasure Planet's performance that has signed Disney Animations death Certificate. The decision was made long ago, (I first heard about it about a year ago). Things were to be slowly phased out. Of course things with the board of directors were shaky and there was always the hope that Lilo and Stitch would hit big and turn everything around. But by the time Lilo & Stitch was due out, so many animators had finally been let go that it was too late to turn back. The wheels were already in motion as it were. I was told by a friend on "Home on the Range" (formerly "Sweating Bullets") that even if L&S made "Lion King Numbers" the decision has already been made. Wouldn't it have made more sense to make this decision after the release? It's the classic putting all the eggs in one basket. They've got half a dozen computer films in development and decided to give up on 2D cold turkey. I guess we shouldn't be surprised. These are the same people who built a whole studio subdivision devoted to CGI and then fired them all when thier first film ,Dinosaur, flopped. A scant 4 years ago?
It's all so ironic because in the middle of 47 CGI films released in the next 5 years, the guy who releases a traditional animated film is going to make all the money and be hailed as a novelty.
Good point about the value of subsequent releases. These films, especially the boldly designed, more experimental films, tend to become classics, that is they stand on thier own and define the genre further. Sleeping Beauty did flop on it's first release; criticized because the story seemed to focus too much on the fairies and not enough on the Princess and Prince. It's totally true. Audiences at the time were looking for that classic love story and the studio gave them more of a twist than they were prepared for. Audiences didn't get it. I'm sure they scoffed saying some of the same things we've read here, that,"perhaps if more time was spent on the story than the backgrounds, the film would have done better", etc... But of course subseqent generations watched the film with an open mind. And they realized the genius of Eeyvind Earle and Marc Davis and Frank Thomas, and Eleanor Audley, and all of the others combined to form a very unique film, with qualities and merits all it's own. uncomparable to anything done before or since. Yes it is a matter of oversaturation. Perhaps one (and definately two) films a year is just two much. There is no longer the time to anticipate the next film, or forget a little bit about it before it is released on video. They've become too plentiful and therefore, cheap and unnappealing. They've killed the golden goose.
Go see Treasure Planet while you can. And let Disney know how you feel. Make them think twice about thier assumption that the public only wants CGI.

 

[Michael Zielski]

Thanks Bill--a light still glimmers at the end of the tunnel.....

One more comment(for now, anyway) about Treasure Planet. I saw it for the second time last weekend--a classic adventure tale, state-of-the-art animation, memorable characters(and evil villains), a rousing score--what else did it need? How about some memorable songs? Is that the ingredient that was missing from the current recipe? I'm sorry but Rzeznik's droning songs did nothing for me, and "I'm Still Here" was just uncomfortably out of place. And I'm certainly more than familiar with the rock genre--I've grown up with the rock music scene since the days of the British invasion and San Francisco psychodelia, even going through a recent garage/punk/Nirvana period(and I'm still here). I suppose the justification for the songs is that Rzeznik's alternative rock angst was supposed to blend with Jim's teenage angst; but I still would have preferred to have heard more classically-styled, timeless songs, maybe even from the characters themselves. C'mon, even Long John Silver has cut a tune before, voiced by Tim Curry in Muppet Treasure Island! I just can't forsee anyone humming "I'm Still Here" to themselves as they stroll down Main Street USA in the Magic Kingdom anytime soon.

I just wonder if a series of appropriately-styled, uplifting songs spaced throughout the film might have added that special touch that apparently was lacking......I just really miss the songs. Don't we all? Isn't that why we're gathered here? Mike.

 

[X-S Tech]

Bill I hope you're right about not all of 2D being laid off.I was told that with the exception of Florida, all 2D production was ceasing in December and that anyone who was staying on would be computer trained. Thus there are still many great 2D animators (ie Glen Keane and Nik Ranieri) they're just not doing it that way anymore. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[SFMike]

Thanks Michael Z....I think you hit it right on the head with your comments about the Rzeznik song used in the film. The droning song "I'm Still Here" "was just uncomfortably out of place." That's exactly what I meant to say. It just didn't work like the songs in "Tarzan." And like you I have nothing against the use of the rock genre, it's just this song in this movie doesn't work and I'm surprised no one in production noticed that.