On January 16th More Albums Debut on iTunes


I'm afraid Will's right; why spend the resources to establish such an entity when you can benefit from cooperating with the market leader, iTunes? While I'd love to have lossless quality, brilliant liner notes, and stupendous sleeves, I'm thrilled an avenue exists at all and that Disney has agreed to avail themselves of it.

Perhaps this is an indication of things to come; wouldn't it be something if the decision makers decided to return to the core of what made Disney the brand we all know and love(d) instead of trying to do everything and barely getting by?
 

BLM07

Member
Why would Disney open its own music download site, when Steve Jobs, APPLE Ceo, and Disney's biggest shareholder has his own music download site (iTunes) that Disney can contribute to.
Should have figured it was something like this.

Do some research people!
I try to ignore apple and anything they do.

I guess in this situation a lot of the fans can get something they want without trying to find a bootleg. And don't think I'm trying to attack Randy in anyway, its the company, its the same sort of thing that is happening to the theme parks. Why go for something high quality when you can attach pixar and make it mediocre but still pull in the crowds? Some don't like it, but most don't mind.
 

CPNHOOK15

Member

Because just taking whatever your given does not make anything better. How would anyone know that there was dissatisfaction if it was never expressed?

If a man's reach does not exceed his grasp than what's a heaven for?

I just think you can "reach for excellence" whilst still being thankfull for what you have.

I also think that we, as a group, need to be aware of how much we complain. I have no problem, indeed I encourage, people to express how they feel. If you don't like something, say so.

HOWEVER...

we need to try not to become the boy who cried wolf (and no, I don't think we are just making up the quality issues) otherwise pretty soon our pleas for better quality will begin to fall on deaf ears.

Here is a question:
Would you rather have issues with the "quality" of releases?

or

Would you rather have issues with the "lack of availablility" of releases?

One in the hand is worth two in the bush. ;D

I remember watching/listening to a video recording I took of Cosmic Ray's Starlight Cafe some years back. I just loved this show. I put the music on cd for myself. It was pretty crappy quality to say the least, but I could listen to it! I was thrilled. When 1 song came out on cd I was estactic. Then another! elation! And then somebody sent me the whole show in (not perfect quality) good condition. Is it as clear as I would like. No. But I would fight you to the death if you tried to take it away from me. Well maybe not to death, but to the pain. Am I going to boycott future releases until the whole show is made commercially available in a quality that I would like it? No. Am I going to ask for it? Yes. And the whole time I am going to keep listening to it ad nauseum.

That's all I'm saying.
 
I have enjoyed some of the CD's I got on iTune, and now, I am wondering... where can I download the cover art in higher resolution? I mean that some covers don't look very good after I printed them out with iTune :(

Thank you! - Matt
 

MWRuger

New Member

Because just taking whatever your given does not make anything better. How would anyone know that there was dissatisfaction if it was never expressed?

If a man's reach does not exceed his grasp than what's a heaven for?


Here is a question:
Would you rather have issues with the "quality" of releases?

or

Would you rather have issues with the "lack of availablility" of releases?

One in the hand is worth two in the bush. ;D

I remember watching/listening to a video recording I took of Cosmic Ray's Starlight Cafe some years back. I just loved this show. I put the music on cd for myself. It was pretty crappy quality to say the least, but I could listen to it! I was thrilled. When 1 song came out on cd I was estactic. Then another! elation! And then somebody sent me the whole show in (not perfect quality) good condition. Is it as clear as I would like. No. But I would fight you to the death if you tried to take it away from me. Well maybe not to death, but to the pain. Am I going to boycott future releases until the whole show is made commercially available in a quality that I would like it? No. Am I going to ask for it? Yes. And the whole time I am going to keep listening to it ad nauseum.

That's all I'm saying.

From my point of view it isn?t available anyway. If I want compromised sound quality I could just go with the boot. I expect a corporation the size of Disney to be able to release things of the highest quality.

If this was the best that Disney could possibly do, I wouldn?t have a problem. Shoot, I listen to scores taken from old acetates and are chockfull of artifacts and I am sure that this release is miles better than those recordings could ever be, sonically speaking. But those acetates are all that survived the decades and these transfer represent the best possible sound that can be gotten from them. The Black Hole does not.

Your second example is not germane because you are talking about getting music from another fan, essentially a bootleg. Maybe that boot represents the best you?ll ever have. But what if the owner of the rights put out a CD of compromised sound? Would you be as forgiving?

As far as complaining goes if everyone just hoped that things worked out and never raised a voice in protest then what exactly do you think would happen? Nothing would happen.

Big corporations only change when they have no choice or because they can make more money by changing. They essentially are completely conservative and take as few risks as possible. If they think everyone is satisfied why in the world would they change?

Let me ask you a question. If you could buy this on CD and only on CD for 20 dollars, would you?
 

CPNHOOK15

Member
MWRuger,
My first suggestion is to reread my post. I think you missed a couple of things. :)

1. I never said to not complain, quite the contrary. My point was that we need to watch how much we complain lest it begin to fall on deaf ears.

2. If you only purchase the best that a company can do (and I'd be curious to hear your list of criteria as to what 'best' entails) you are either obscenely wealthy or have next to nothing. I'd be curious to hear a few things that are the best, in your opinion... 'cuz everything can be improved. Heck, do you boycott Disneyland because of 'Winnie the Pooh' or DCA entirely? That ain't the best ride or park that Disney can do. No, you probably still go to the park, enjoy what you want, and leave a complaint at City Hall if needed.

3. My second example was just to show that you can always want/ask for more... but I think you'd be silly to ignore what's available in the meantime... especially when that can affect what you might get in the future. I fail to see the logic:
Disney: "Hmmmm, we make this music available and few people bought it. Maybe we should cut our losses, spend more money to increase the quality, and try again." I don't think so. Support what they do, complain if needed, but give them reasons to to it again and improve what they offer.

4. To answer your last question, I already have bought this music... and thankfully, iTunes didn't charge me $20.

I still stick by my main point which is this, this music is for the general public. Our ears and equipment are, in some cases, MUCH more fine tuned than 99.9% of the public. Who would you cater too?

And think about this, when the in park system of distributing previously unavailable Disney music came out... how many of us thought it was the best that Disney could do? The Forever Music System was a feeble effort at best, mislabeled tracks, poor - good quality tracks, no documentation, average disc material itself, and for $20 all you got were about 10 tracks (if memory serves). But people bought it and it led to where we are now.

Patience grasshopper.
Reach for the stars.
Enjoy the now.
 

MWRuger

New Member
MWRuger,
My first suggestion is to reread my post. I think you missed a couple of things. :)

1. I never said to not complain, quite the contrary. My point was that we need to watch how much we complain lest it begin to fall on deaf ears.

2. If you only purchase the best that a company can do (and I'd be curious to hear your list of criteria as to what 'best' entails) you are either obscenely wealthy or have next to nothing. I'd be curious to hear a few things that are the best, in your opinion... 'cuz everything can be improved. Heck, do you boycott Disneyland because of 'Winnie the Pooh' or DCA entirely? That ain't the best ride or park that Disney can do. No, you probably still go to the park, enjoy what you want, and leave a complaint at City Hall if needed.

3. My second example was just to show that you can always want/ask for more... but I think you'd be silly to ignore what's available in the meantime... especially when that can affect what you might get in the future. I fail to see the logic:
Disney: "Hmmmm, we make this music available and few people bought it. Maybe we should cut our losses, spend more money to increase the quality, and try again." I don't think so. Support what they do, complain if needed, but give them reasons to to it again and improve what they offer.

4. To answer your last question, I already have bought this music... and thankfully, iTunes didn't charge me $20.

I still stick by my main point which is this, this music is for the general public. Our ears and equipment are, in some cases, MUCH more fine tuned than 99.9% of the public. Who would you cater too?

And think about this, when the in park system of distributing previously unavailable Disney music came out... how many of us thought it was the best that Disney could do? The Forever Music System was a feeble effort at best, mislabeled tracks, poor - good quality tracks, no documentation, average disc material itself, and for $20 all you got were about 10 tracks (if memory serves). But people bought it and it led to where we are now.

Patience grasshopper.
Reach for the stars.
Enjoy the now.


1. Honestly, I suspect that complaints will do no good at all because I don?t think corporations make changes based on customer complaints unless it effects the bottom line. Since most people don?t have a problem with this release and would really just like all the complaining to go away, I don?t think anything I say or do will change that.

So why bother? Because if you don?t stand for what you believe then you will stand for nothing or everything.

This is what I can do, not buy the release and proclaim to anyone who will listen why I will not buy the release so that's what I do.

2. Since you ask, here is my list of criteria. The music should be released in the best audio quality that is possible based on the conditions of the original masters. It should be distributed in a fashion that allows anyone who would enjoy the music to have a chance to acquire it. It should come in a durable format that is not subject to hard drive failures or the whims of Apple. It should come with an insert that at the very least duplicates, if not expands on the original liner notes.

I have never been to Disneyland and it?s unlikely I will go as I have no children and I am unlikely to have any. But if I went to Disneyland and it failed to meet my standards I certainly would not go back until it did. And yes, I would certainly tell them why. If other potential customers asked I would also tell them of my experiences.

Actually, I wish I had higher standards because I have spent a crapload of money on music that just isn?t that good. I have pretty low standards, but this release doesn?t meet them for reasons I have already illuminated further up.

3. I could just as easily say that supporting the release guarantees no future release.

Disney: Hmmm we sold about 7000 downloads on iTunes. The unfilled demand must be pretty small, why release a CD? How many people who already spent 9.99 on it will want to buy it again?


4. You didn?t answer my question at all. I asked if this had only been released on CD and only CD for 20 bucks would you have bought it?

I would cater to both markets since the bulk of the expense has already been done. I would release a limited edition CD say of about 5000 units and offer it on iTunes for those who don?t mind the lower audio quality.
 

CPNHOOK15

Member
This will be my last reply on this topic. We may just have to agree to disagree. But I will respond to your points.

1. To complain or not to complain that is the question. Does it get heard? I think it does. Does it mean it will change? Probably not. That's called life. Dream all you want, but sadly, $$ rules the bottom line 99.9% of the time. But my question to you is: Make lemons out of lemonade or go thirsty while complaining? Your choice. I choose lemonade, but that's just me.

2a. I agree with many of your 'wants' for music releases. My only response is: Does the market demand that type of a release on every album put out? It may still be too early to tell, but my guess from what is out there right now is , no. So why change? At the end of the day, the people in control of the things we want are a business. This is not their hobby, it is their lively hood. And if you don't want to do that on every album, what would your criteria be for determining which albums to release like that? I doubt 'Ukulele Ike Sings Again' would be high on anybodies list except those of us on this board.

2b. You need not have children to enjoy Disneyland. Heck, I'd wager you'd become a kid by noon if you tried. Sadly, I think once you waited in a line longer that what you deem 'appropriate' or saw one to many specs of trash on the ground, you would leave in disgust and tell all your friends never to return. Nothing is perfect and everything can be improved. I would suggest you go, but I think the 'dream of what Disneyland should be' would only disappoint you when you saw the 'Disneyland that is'... despite it being a very magical place in deed.

3. I must have missed your point on this one. If you mean no future 'cd' releases you may be right. I think at some point in time a hard copy (cd) will be a thing of the past. Digital releases are probably the thing of the future. What is your point? Did dvd's start out with 2 disc sets, feature length commentary, outtakes, promo's, etc,... No. They started out as a movie in a box. When the companies realized that people would buy them, things expanded into what we get today. Nowadays it's getting hard to just buy a movie with no extras. Heck, we get pissy when there aren't enough extras (what? only 2 discs, not 4???)... there goes 'the grass is always greener' again. If you mean that by supporting the release, they will just stop making that music available... well, I think your crazy. I doubt any record exec would say, "Gee, that last album sold pretty well. We should just stop." ::)

4. I did answer your question. I bought the music that I wanted, that iTunes made available, with the quality they released it in, for the price they were asking for it. That probably is not the answer you wanted, however. I assume you are directing your question at the Black Hole SOundtrack? If so, no, I would not pay $20 for a cd release of this music... but not for any reason you have stated. The quality is good enough, I just am not a fan of the music. Would I have paid $20 for other Disney released music, previously unavailable, at less than perfect sound quality, that I liked? You bet. One look at my vast collection of Disneyland & WDW Forever cd's will tell you that I will.

5. How/why/what is the logic behind releasing something in limited quantity over iTunes? That completely boggles me????? ???

Lastly, I can tell you from personal experience... if you try to please everyone, you wind up with crap. And while many people may think that what we have been given is crappy quality, the vast majority of folks disagree. Sorry.

Now excuse me whilst I go listen to my audio collection of various qualities... that I LOVE!!!!

I guess you can go listen to some silence in honor of all the music you'd like to have, that's available, that isn't up to your standards. :-[

I hope someday you find what you're asking for.

In the mean time.... MR. Thornton, keep cranking 'em out my friend... I luv ya and the work you do!!!! Thanks again. ;D
 

MusicMoose

New Member
Cpnhook, I agree with your philosophy. Music is to be enjoyed, and I'm enjoying the heck out of these releases and getting more than my money's worth.

MWRuger, if you wouldn't go to Disneyland just because you don't have kids, what the heck are you DOING here? :) Besides complaining, I mean. (That's what you *do*? Surely you have more fun than that!) I can't imagine you're at all interested in vintage Disney LPs.

So, maybe it *is* the Black Hole soundtrack that led you down the rabbit hole to this forum of happy Disney Fanatics. If so, I do hope you get your CD release someday.

In the meantime, remember life isn't perfect and was never meant to be so. It's also short. Enjoy art for what it is. If it touches you emotionally, that's all that matters.
It's about people. Everything else is...pfffffff.

And if you ever *do* make it to Disneyland, sit in back on Space Mountain and try the fritters in New Orleans Square. :)
 

MWRuger

New Member
Instead of addressing both posts point by point I will just answer in general.

Yes, the main reason that I came to this board was to make my views about The Black Hole soundtrack release known. I have done this on every music board where it would be appropriate. I love all kinds of music, but film scores are a particular passion of mine. It bothers me that this is only available in compromised audio formats and only to people in the US and Canada.

That said, there are a few Disney albums I would like to have besides soundtracks. I remember Mickey and the Beanstalk on LP and a few others. I also remember some music from The Wonderful World of Disney that I would like to have, but this is not an abiding passion of mine.

I do a lot more than ?complain? but I can understand why you think all I do is complain as that has been your experience. But generalizing an entire person from a handful of comments is absurd. I do understand your views, having ran into many people over the years who take ?the sunny side? at all costs. Any dissenters who rock the ?happy? boat get shoved over the side. That?s fine. I can swim.

I offered various points about why I can?t support this release and why others who feel the same way can?t support it. I am not sure why you feel like everyone has to agree or accept the current status.

I even agree that the CD?s days are numbered and that downloads are probably going to supplant them. That is why it is MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER to make sure that the audio quality standards are maintained. Consumers determine what is acceptable and what is not. Companies respond to that demand. Demand less and you get less.

I don?t want the standards of all music lowered to this level just because no one wants to take a chance on upsetting Disney or Warner?s or Paramount or EMI or Virgin or any of the other giant conglomerates that own the rights to all the music that is a part of our lives. That is why every time, and I mean every single time, this issue comes up I post on it. You never know who is reading and I want my views (and the views of those who feel as I do) to be known.

While I would probably have a good time at Disneyland but the cost is prohibitive and I would rather spend that money on something I would enjoy more. Taking kids to Disneyland would make the cost unimportant as that experience would be wonderful beyond what the park could offer. My own expectations are that it is a well run and well engineered theme park, with probably over priced food services and souvenirs. Maybe if I had gone as a kid I would have a nostalgic connection with it, but I don?t. Major Matt Mason toys and Big Little Books conjure my inner child far more than a trip to Disneyland would.

I absolutely agree that life is to be enjoyed but it must be tempered with wisdom. I am sure you do not advocate a reckless hedonism, but without standards how do you draw the line?

Finally, my suggestion was to release it in BOTH formats, not just limited edition CDs so that everyone could hear it. How exactly would that hurt people who wanted the download?

I would also like to thank Mr. Thornton for working on this release and hope that in the future I can support his efforts with my money as well as my good wishes.
 

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