On January 16th More Albums Debut on iTunes


New Member
I don't believe that THE BLACK HOLE will be available only by download, I hate to do download, I hate CD-R, I think Disney is made a big mistake doing it only by Download, I'm very unhappy with this new way for music, I think that is a step back
Thanks, Randy, for the great news! The Saludos Amigos LP is one of my very favorites, as is Babes in Toyland and DanceAnnette!

Go Disneyland/Vista!!!
I don't believe that THE BLACK HOLE will be available only by download, I hate to do download, I hate CD-R, I think Disney is made a big mistake doing it only by Download...
Oh come on, you could have worked "download" in there a couple more times if you'd worked at it a bit harder.

So, how do you *really* feel about online music sales? Might I suggest that you simply choose not to buy the darn thing via iTunes? That way you won't be contributing to Disney's "big mistake."



yeah i can't seem to find babes in toyland either been waiting for it all week-end and now today nothing. what happen?



I plan on spending many hours listening to these new releases. We really appreciate all of your hard work to bring these albums to us. Thanks.

And now a question: Do we (meaning those of us who are audiophiles and frequent forums such as this) really think or actually expect Disney, or any business for that matter, to cater to our minority tastes/preferences?
How often are we going to try and bite the hand that feeds us before we really lose out? It sometimes seems that some of us have the opinion that we are better off without this rereleased material than with it... just because it isn't the proper kps for our tastes. That's just crazy in my opinion.

If I cant wear clothes by Armani, I will go naked instead.
If I can't drive a Porsche, I will walk.

Don't take it personally, but they don't release these just for us. While we can tell the difference between 90kps and 128kps, MOST can't. And it has nothing to do with "perception filters". Geesh, c'mon! ::)

While music may be a passion and a love for us, it is a business for the ones who make it available to us.

The grass is always greener....

I will take a iTunes purchase over a bootleg 99 out of 100 times.

I also wonder how often we can beg Mr. Thornton to gripe for us before either he or his superiors tune us out?


New Member
Re: Waiting for Babes in Toyland

Patience, patience. I'm waiting for that one to appear, too. iTunes isn't exactly 100% perfect about getting all the new release ducks in a row at the same time on Tuesdays. I'm sure it'll appear, soon, then...YEEHAH! Forest of No Return at last!!!!

Hey, CPNHOOK, thanks for your comment: I totally agree. The good folks here who've expressed their dislike of iTunes have expressed their concerns well and with good intentions, but the reality is...it's this or nothin'. I could hit by a truck tomorrow. I'll take the music in this format and enjoy it today, thanks.

iTunes' sound quality is fine. And, fer cryin' out loud, most of these archive releases were only available before as scratchy LPS!

Besides, someday this'll all be a moot point: Connections will be faster and sound files will be larger. One way or the other, CD's are going the way of the LP.

BUT LOOK at this great stuff that's now available! I've waited my entire life to hear some of this! Good times!

Dr. Know

I agree wholeheartedly with everything Olivier posted above. I share the same concerns about iTunes-only releases (though I have, on occasion, purchased single tracks and albums from the iTunes store in the absence of any other option).


New Member
The problem, CPNHook15 and MusicMoose, is not the medium, but its use:
- releasing music in very restricted way, for a specific software, specific players, and literally two or three specific regions of the world, is a lot more unfair than a 1000-unit release, where everybody has a fair chance of getting it
- the source & remastering are not at fault; many times, all that remains of a score or a track is an acetate copy or a damaged tape or the movie's sound effects & score mix; there is nothing the producer can do.
In this case, despite technical difficulties, Mr Thornton had a good source, and certainly did a great job, but then, the whole thing was compressed. It is definitely not a matter of "that's all there is, there is no other way to have this music".

The real issuse is that choices are made by people who do not care; see how the Disney Company has evolved throughout the years: traditional animation has been shut down because someone decided CGI was the future and was what people wanted; Disneyland Paris has been "Frenchized" because someone decided that was what people wanted; (the following point is not exclusive to Disney, but still valid) CDs contain songs unrelated to the movie, and several cover versions of the same song, thus cramming out the actual music.
And now the same kind of people once again disregard the top quality of the material they have (movies, Parks, music) and decide that people want music releases to be restricted to one player in one country and in one compressed format.
Granted, film & Park music collecting are highly specialized and concern only a few thousand people worldwide; but it you seek their business by releasing something, once you have paid for restoration and remastering, you should go all the way and provide what those people want, rather than go stingy right at the end of the process.

To take an analogy further, I am not asking for silk & satin everytime; plain cloth will do if that is really all that is left; but if there is a perfectly fine suit in stock, and the tailor has made the necessary adjustments, why should I accept to see the cashier tear it to shreds when I am checking out?

As stated earlier, I am very well aware Mr Thornton is not responsible for this, as he has already done a great deal for the preservation of Disney music, and that a few messages here may not be the magical solution.
I just hope they can be more useful than an Internet petition no one will read, by seizing the opportunity of one member being directly involved in the production to let the people in charge know that everybody is not satisfied, that the reasons are sensible, and that the Company is missing many sales (on this and future releases) by trying to save a bit, when the amount saved (CD, case, booklet, design, ...) would more than cover the costs for a better digital release (more server space for uncompressed file, on a server that is definitely not limited).
Some film music lovers have already stated they will seek a bootleg copy (which has been available for a long time-- nope, I do not have it), and even those willing to pay for a digital release are barred from it by the technical & country restrictions, meaning they, too, will have to get a CD-R (thus another form of bootleg) from someone with access to the files (and who will certainly not pay for another, duplicate download), judging it the only way to circumvent such outrageous discrimination.




For those of you with iTunes concerns, most of the time, I rarely hear a difference. But, there are some headphones that you can hear significant differences on, so I just avoid those like the plague (mainly Coby, Sony and Koss headphones, but you get what you pay for).

I love my iPod, and Playlist Magazine did an article about the very thing you are talking about, what the "mainstream" NYTimes deemed "crippleware". Trust me, while I have a subscription to the New York Times, I take most of what they say with a LARGE grain of salt.




Good points. I'm not sure what some of them have to do with the discussion at hand (compression & quality) however. I, for one, think a French themed Disneyland in France is a cool thing. And think of all the GREAT music we would miss out on if all the parks played exactly the same thing as Disneyland? But thats just me... and I digress...

I just think that our microscopic view clouds the actual big picture. You yourself state that we are only a "few thousand worldwide"... and yet we expect them to cater to our wishes as if we were the only audience (or millions strong).

We also can't just jump to the conclusion that we didn't get what we wanted because the 'guy in charge just doesn't care'. Go ask any business owner what he would like to do if he could... and then ask him what he CAN ACTUALLY do with all the constraints that doing business and trying to make a profit bring with it. Im not trying to say that everyone involved cares 100%, but don't try to tell me that 100% of them dont care at all either.

And I can't seem to say this enough, while we can tell a difference (and not all of us can mind you) the majority of people that listen to music cannot (quality wise). Not everyone has (or wants) a $5,000 pair of headphones to listen with. Those crappy iPod headphones that people listen to in crowded/noisy areas are WAAAYYY more the norm than we are... by millions!

The only gripe I think we legitimately have is the issue of availability in different countries. Although I imagine it has something to do with supply and demand. Is it worth it, in either time, effort, or money, to make it available for the amount of profit to be made? My guess is 'no'. What may seem to us as an easy solution may require a great deal more than we can imagine. Selling something to another country is not just as simple as saying, "Here you go Germany... have at it!" Granted, I doubt is as hard as some would like us to believe... but the truth lies somewhere inbetween. I do hope they get that issue fixed asap!

I think I can garauntee that for every legitimate reason we can give as to why it should be done one way, the folks in charge can give us one equally legitimate reason that it didn't. Maybe in a perfect world it would be different or maybe when you or I are preseident of the entire music/recording industry.

I just cant understand why people cant be happy with what they have? It's not as bad as we make it out to be. I would rather have an iTunes song than a 45 yr old record anyday.

Relax, support these releases so there will be more made available and progress will be made.

'Cuz I promise you, if we gripe so much, and don't support these releases... they will stop making them. And then I will hunt all of you down that caused that and give you a piece of my mind! ;)

I too wish things could be better, but it ain't that bad, and I am going to enjoy what I have today.


New Member
Olivier, I like your posts, and actually agree with most of your points. I think my main disagreement with you is simply a matter of optimism. What just happened with these iTunes releases is awesome. Is it perfect for everyone on the planet? No. Will this situation improve? I think it will.

I do disagree that a limited release CD is better than a widely available download. Quality issues aside, music isn't meant to be horded and collected. It's meant to be shared and enjoyed.

I agree with CPNHOOK15's assessment of corporate Disney and the people within trying to make magic happen in spite of everything. And, indeed, magic just happened. I'm listening to Saludos Amigos, (on my "crappy" iTunes phones, thank you very much) :) and it's making me very, very happy.

My heart goes out to all Disney music fans across the globe who cannot currently purchase the songs online. Hopefully, this will change.

One of the best things about iTunes is its function as a sort of online music theme park that's open 24/7. You can wander in, browse and sample to your heart's content, play with the search engines and discover all kinds of non-mainstream masterpieces - the quirky, the unusual, and the nostalgic. The fact that this theme park now has an "Archive Disney Land" for people to wander into is very cool.

But, of course, no theme park is without the occasional glitch. For instance....

Has ANYONE been able to find Babes In Toyland yet? Anyone?



New Member
The problem is, that you do not need any expensive equipment to hear the compression noise.
I managed to download the album (it took me some hours to find out how to do this, if you're not in the US), but have to say, that I'm unhappy with the product. The music is outstanding, but the sound quality is a real mess - and I do not even know the LP or the b**t! The thing is, that you can tell the difference, whether a recording has limited sound quality due to the lack of adequate source material, or if somebody has destroyed it afterwards by compressing it down. Sorry, if you can't tell the difference, I will start uploading and give you a few examples of how you do not want to listen to your music...


New Member
The point of the non-music examples was to illustrate the kind of bad decisions made by people who have been called in to run the show when they actually don't know a thing about it.

One point I forgot: Mr Thornton himself clearly expected complaints, as shown in his announcement.

To conclude, thanks for the kind replies & discussion!
I know it's not the best way to register on a forum, and that longtime members are wary of someone who pops up just to complain.
Now that I am finally registered, I will try and participate, but, as I said, I am not as well versed in Theme Park music as you are. I have an LP of Disneyland music, featuring the main attractions, the Legacy of Disney set (selected songs from the Parks & movies), plus the California Adventure CD, for Goldsmith' & Broughton's contributions-- and that's all, park-wise.


New Member
I just cant understand why people cant be happy with what they have? It's not as bad as we make it out to be. I would rather have an iTunes song than a 45 yr old record anyday.

Because just taking whatever your given does not make anything better. How would anyone know that there was dissatisfaction if it was never expressed?

If a man's reach does not exceed his grasp than what's a heaven for?

Considering that Disney is the rights holder there is no reason that they couldn't do both: release a Limited Edition CD and release an iTunes version. MOST record companies do exactly that.

My guess is Disney doesn't think there is a market for a CD but looking at companies like FSM, Varese and Intrada there is a good model for limited edition CD distribution. This would meet nearly all of my concerns.


Why can't Disney set up their own lossless and lossy pay-download site? Quite a few bands sell their music though simple websites like that, no software, no paying another company for distribution, nothing fancy. Not trying to sound like a jerk, but asking a serious question.

Look at http://www.livemetallica.com/ they have hundreds of shows available in MP3 and FLAC, they even have covers to download. Disney is much bigger, but I have a feeling that they can handle the bandwidth.


New Member
A Disney-owned (and Randy Thornton supervised!) download site with lossless downloads and album art (and liner notes) would be awesome.

But remember, Disney can't even run the Disney Stores properly. They couldn't provide proper upkeep for the Wonderland Music system.

Things can change, and get better. Right now, millions of people have access to a couple dozen rare Disney treasures on iTunes. That is much better than iTunes without this product. The iTunes customer base is large enough that this could work. Heaven knows, iTunes is packed with material that is far more obscure than this: That's part of the fun of the shop. Every day, 24/7, people browse around iTunes and play with its search engines. It's a good thing for all Disney music fans that the archive selections are now included in that data base. The more sales, the more exposure, & the more chance of future expansions of the Disney catalog, both within and outside of iTunes.

The music stays alive, active and out of the vaults. That's the most important thing for now.


Why would Disney open its own music download site, when Steve Jobs, APPLE Ceo, and Disney's biggest shareholder has his own music download site (iTunes) that Disney can contribute to.

Do some research people!