I Miss the Forever Kiosks


Horizons

Playlist Author
It is interesting. I've always wondered why Disney didn't release these tracks again (or new ones for that matter) for sale on iTunes.
 

wedroy1923

Moderator
Premium Member
Playlist Author
It is interesting. I've always wondered why Disney didn't release these tracks again (or new ones for that matter) for sale on iTunes.

I've always wondered whether they gave a Disneylander the job of picking out stuff for Walt Disney World Forever because while Disneyland Forever had some great old stuff to choose from, e.g. the Wizard of Bras narration, the historical depth of selections for Walt Disney World can be measured in things like the ONE track from If You Had Wings.
 

thx99

Real-life Harry Caul
Moderator
Playlist Author
I've always wondered whether they gave a Disneylander the job of picking out stuff for Walt Disney World Forever because while Disneyland Forever had some great old stuff to choose from, e.g. the Wizard of Bras narration, the historical depth of selections for Walt Disney World can be measured in things like the ONE track from If You Had Wings.
I'd :lol: at this if it wasn't so damn true and depressing!! At least they could have given us the beautiful exit music from IYHW in place of the New Orleans-style jazz track. :angry:
 

The Trout

Member
It's worth noting that the mastering on many of the Forever tracks left a LOT to be desired (particularly at DL). Crappy fades, weird edits, noise beyond just tape hiss (like electronic buzzing), some truly ridiculous noise reduction on several tracks, etc. Granted, it's great that any of this material was released to begin with, but if Disney ever did it again, I'd hope that Randy or his talented minions would properly master the material first.
 

Magic Music

Administrator
Playlist Author
There were several problems with the Forever system. First, the people working on the project didn't know any better and failed to obtain proper licensing for many of the tracks. Second, the operation of the kiosks was confusing for both guests and cast members alike. Third, even if you knew what you were doing, it took way too long to put together a collection of tracks. This is why we ended up with the Wonderland system consisting of [post=15971]predefined collections[/post] (of properly licensed music).
 

Horizons

Playlist Author
I spent many hours at those kiosks, with a somewhat impatient wife. With so much great material in the vaults, a similar system, be it in-park or via iTunes would be much appreciated by a segment of the fan base. I understand that a lot of the material is subject to licensing issues that would make such an endevour non-profitable. Let's be honest, how many wackos apart from a very small segment of WDW fans are really dying to get their hands on this stuff? I will be the first to admit I am on the top off the wacko list for this, but I always wondered how much profit Disney actually made from the official releases. Perhaps someday, more material will become available. But don't forget, a lot of material was pulled from commercial releases so I would also be happy with a data dump of playlists.
 

SeaCastle

Playlist Author
For me, the most maddening aspect of the dearth of commercially-available park audio is that there's just so much great music that Disney has produced that has not seen the light of day outside of a few speakers. It seems once something stops playing in the parks, it's gone forever. I never had a chance to listen to the original EPCOT Center loop in person, but the reconstructions and leaked recordings are some truly beautiful orchestrations.

I do believe that there is a market of fans (outside of "wackos") who would purchase music from prior times in park history. The possibilities are virtually endless...imagine a "World Showcase Tour" CD that featured the music from the International Gateway, or a CD dedicated to the jazzy background music of pre-1994 Tomorrowland. A pipe dream, perhaps, but I hope Disney does come around to releasing some of the most original and beautiful music ever composed.
 

needmagic

DLRP Obsessed
Premium Member
Playlist Author
Imagine being able to wander into a land or area, attach your mp3 player to a 'kiosk' and download attraction soundtracks, loops and playlists - that would take the Kiosks into the 21st century. Any purchase could then go towards licensing costs and fees, keeping it totally legal. Now that's something I'd be interested in. It might even be possible to bluetooth to a device?
 

eyore

DLRP explorer
Premium Member
Playlist Author
Imagine being able to wander into a land or area, attach your mp3 player to a 'kiosk' and download attraction soundtracks, loops and playlists - that would take the Kiosks into the 21st century. Any purchase could then go towards licensing costs and fees, keeping it totally legal. Now that's something I'd be interested in. It might even be possible to bluetooth to a device?
That would take all the fun out of standing around for an hour or so hoping the CMs don't notice the wires :lol:
It's not going to happen but we can dream :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:

Of course, they could just sell the playlists to guests for a small fee ;)
 

thx99

Real-life Harry Caul
Moderator
Playlist Author
Of course, they could just sell the playlists to guests for a small fee ;)
Then we really would have them breathing down our necks for copyright infringement! ;)
 
There were several problems with the Forever system. First, the people working on the project didn't know any better and failed to obtain proper licensing for many of the tracks. Second, the operation of the kiosks was confusing for both guests and cast members alike. Third, even if you knew what you were doing, it took way too long to put together a collection of tracks. This is why we ended up with the Wonderland system consisting of [post=15971]predefined collections[/post] (of properly licensed music).
So that's what happened.

Couldn't they bring the Wonderland system back for DL & WDW, except you get a complete album of park music, with a choice to pick from five categories with a CD each at $20(?) from one of those five categories:
---"Area Music" (like, the New Orleans Square area or the Plaza Inn Restaurant);
--- "Attraction Music" (Adventure Thru Inner Space or The Mickey Mouse Revue);
---"Shows & Parades Music" (Splashtacular or one of the parades); and two called,
----"Lost & Found", where music that has not been heard for a long time would surface, (like the complete "Tomorrowland 2055 Music) and
---- "Music from Other Parks", with albums like, "Music from Meet The World" from TDL& "Time Thru Time." DLP
That's just a quick idea I just got, I doubt this would really happen, but it's a nice dream to have for Disney Music fans.


Timekeeper
 

eyore

DLRP explorer
Premium Member
Playlist Author
Couldn't they bring the Wonderland system back for DL & WDW, except you get a complete album of park music, with a choice to pick from five categories with a CD each at $20(?) from one of those five categories:
---"Area Music" (like, the New Orleans Square area or the Plaza Inn Restaurant);
--- "Attraction Music" (Adventure Thru Inner Space or The Mickey Mouse Revue);
---"Shows & Parades Music" (Splashtacular or one of the parades); and two called,
----"Lost & Found", where music that has not been heard for a long time would surface, (like the complete "Tomorrowland 2055 Music) and
---- "Music from Other Parks", with albums like, "Music from Meet The World" from TDL& "Time Thru Time." DLP
That's just a quick idea I just got, I doubt this would really happen, but it's a nice dream to have for Disney Music fans.
I don't think that would work for the reasons stated above.
The Wonderland CDs (as I understand it and I may be wrong here) were for Disney titles (ie already owned by Disney) rather than for stuff Disney licenses from elsewhere and plays in the park.
Most area music isn't owned by Disney so they would have to renegotiate everything.
I doubt it would be worth their while.
There's also a problem with Tokyo stuff as Tokyo isn't owned by Disney so (I think) License the music themselves (with some restrictions from Disney which is why some TDL stuff is only available within Japan).
 

Club 33

Playlist Author
The Disneyland Forever kiosks were very profitable- the main issue was licensing. That and the technology just didn't work very well.

Park music isn't usually recorded with licensing for commercial release in mind. When they go and license music (especially older music) to release on CD they have to pay a lot of royalties (in the hundreds of thousands of dollars per track).

The Wonderland releases were all rereleases of music that had previously been released by Walt Disney Records, hence all of it was already cleared for commercial release.

And, some of those albums (and more) have already been put up on iTunes, including things like the Disneyland Band, the Mellowmen, the Golden Horsesoe, and even the country bear jamboree.

As far as area music goes, the stuff that was recorded especially for Disney brings with it licensing and royalty issues, as I mentioned, and the stuff that is needledrop is already available for those who wants to track it down, so in either case the motivation for Disney to put together it's own release is just not there.

Randy Thornton has done a good amount of work in getting official park releases out over the last few years, and the stuff that has been released has been of considerably higher quality than anything that was ever available on the Forever system. It is also arguable that Disney's apparent indifference to releasing park music is probably a factor in their apparent indifference towards attempting to prosecute or shut down the massive amount of music pirating that goes on in the parks. One can bet that if tons of park audio went up for sale on iTunes they would care a lot more about the file sharing of park music.
 
I don't think that would work for the reasons stated above.
The Wonderland CDs (as I understand it and I may be wrong here) were for Disney titles (ie already owned by Disney) rather than for stuff Disney licenses from elsewhere and plays in the park.
Most area music isn't owned by Disney so they would have to renegotiate everything.
I doubt it would be worth their while.
There's also a problem with Tokyo stuff as Tokyo isn't owned by Disney so (I think) License the music themselves (with some restrictions from Disney which is why some TDL stuff is only available within Japan).
Well, OK, maybe not so much on the area music & other parks music, but still, I could see some of the old park tracks ether being released for the first time or re-released.


Timekeeper
 

eyore

DLRP explorer
Premium Member
Playlist Author
Well, OK, maybe not so much on the area music & other parks music, but still, I could see some of the old park tracks ether being released for the first time or re-released.
Same arguments apply to all the music played in the park. Someone, somewhere, owns the copyright to everything used.
I can't see a demand (by the general public) for old park tracks to justify the legal stuff Disney would have to go through to get permission to use them.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see them do it but the same problem exists whether the tracks are old or new (and it would probably be harder to track down the owners of the older stuff due to music companies changing hands over the years).
Yes, they could probably release tracks that they commissioned and had a "do whatever you like with it" clause in the contract but where would the demand for such music be and would it be worth their while? I doubt sales would cover the cost and Disney isn't going to do anything for fans that doesn't make them money, alas. :(
Still, we can dream.....................
Out of curiosity, are you thinking about any specific music?
Often, people think that the music isn't available anywhere except from Disney, yet even the most odd stuff is still taken from commercial music sources which, in many cases, is still available to buy.
Run some past us and we may be able to tell you where to get it (if it's not already covered in the playlist section or the blogs). ;)
 

eyore

DLRP explorer
Premium Member
Playlist Author
I did mean that many of us know of some sources (albums used etc) for some tracks from area loops but have not yet published those details and we could possibly direct them to a source for them to find a copy to buy.
I think my comment may have been misunderstood. :blush:
 

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