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Tracking Changes to the Official Albums

Discussion in 'Disney Parks and Resorts' started by Tannerman, Sep 22, 2009.

  1. eyore

    eyore DLRP explorer Premium Member Playlist Author

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    The deleted parts of the Wiki have been classed as unsuitable for inclusion in a wiki article and marked for deletion (PROD)and finally deleted.
    The reason is that the particular albums don't meet the Wiki criteria as far as the admins are concerned. The criteria for notable can be found here.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:N
    My guess is that there were no sources named or those named were unsuitable or the importance of the album wasn't made clear nor it's place or purpose in the listings (if the admins are not Disney followers, it's just a flash in the pan album of little note.
     
  2. BLM07

    BLM07 Member

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    Yeah, it bugs me that people on Wikipedia deleted all those albums I entered info for.

    And I've always considered official albums the albums that have "official album" written on them B)
     
  3. Tannerman

    Tannerman Member

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    Chiming back on on the official discussion here (sorry, life has been busy...)

    I guess when I started putting this project together, it was to answer the question "Do I need to buy "Official Album X" if I already have "Official Album Y" and "Official Album Z"?... what's different?"

    It would seem that the first thing we all do when a new album is announced is to seek out "what's new?" Is it another rerun of tracks or is there some good content on there to snap it up. Granted, as Disney theme park music fans, you'd probably buy it anyway, but to someone new who is coming into this hobby/obsession, it's quite hard to navigate the history of album releases when all you have to go on is eBay listings and the secondary market for education.

    I guess that's why I tend to lean on the minimalist/smaller scope of this whole thing, rather than an all-encompassing directory, which others can do so much better. Well, that and we all have finite hours in the day to spend on such things :)
     
  4. Emcduck

    Emcduck Playlist Author

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    That was what I thought I read. So your vision would be something like comparing each album for track changes, not changes to a track itself so much. Meaning that you are looking for when a song by the side street strutters comes off the next album and and is replaced by a song by the Mellomen... Not whether the version of it's a small world is 2:45 or 4:32...
     
  5. Tannerman

    Tannerman Member

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    Actually, this would be a valid change to note, since they are different tracks and versions. The evolution of Splash Mountain's tracks alone are notable.

    I think it would be beyond the scope to note, for example, if the same track was listed at 2:45 on one album, and 2:47 on another, when basically they are the same track. I can see this being an area where the Magic Music community could actually provide a lot of group insight, noting what are basically "same tracks" despite a tracking length difference. However, if there is a change (such as the Splash Mountain lift hill song variation that debuted on the 2006 DL Official Album), I believe that's within the scope to note, as it does fit to answer the question, "Do I need to buy this album to get Version X of this song?"

    Where the tricky area grows into this is when you have albums like Fantasmic's soundtracks and look to incorporate that as well. Yes, they are official releases, but by keeping the scope narrowed to the so-called branded "Official Albums", the project scope becomes more manageable and likely to be completed. Now, you could always expand that scope on a later phase, but initially, this is what I was thinking regarding the resource.
     
  6. almandot

    almandot Member

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    So what about the difference I hear between the Hooray for Hollywood tracks between the recent Disneyland and WDW cds? The tracks are identical but on Disneyland's the opening drums sound noticeably sharper to me. Is that a difference or just me being a nerd and I should go shut up and sit in my corner ;)
     
  7. eyore

    eyore DLRP explorer Premium Member Playlist Author

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    That's a good point.
    I would suggest that a re-recording (even if it means that it sounds a little better - probably due to new software etc) wouldn't count as a change as it's probably from the same source. I think the same would apply if the original was issued mono and were now stereo or whatever (sorry, being old I remember when vinyl was issued in both forms - I always bought the mono! Whoever thought they would, one day, own a stereo) :huh:
    I'd suggest the original recording as the gold standard rather than production values.
    Some original mono recordings may be enhanced to sound stereo (I have a lot of non-Disney Folk CDs like that). I don't really regard them as "new".
     
  8. Emcduck

    Emcduck Playlist Author

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    So this may really be something that will use some of my skills. (I spent 4 years doing medical research)

    In reading the posts, there are several levels of needs based upon the the same thing. different levels of information regarding tracks from commercially available albums.
    Information ranging from
    • Basic: what tracks and their length are available on each album
    • Intermediate: major track changes such as song version and major length changes
    • Advanced: Minor track changes.
    So as far as depth of this I think that we can see that there is a definite interest in all levels. Which answers the questions of what information and how much information should be included.

    Things IMHO still needing to be considered:
    • Which albums to include
    • What format to place the information in
    • dHow to present the information (ie. software or method)
    • Whether to include information from albums that none of us has in our collections.
    • How to collaborate together to provide the more in depth information
    IMHO:
    1. I believe that Tannerman's point of beginning with just the Official Album Brand would be best as it gives a focal point for everyone to start with, and polish the process, then we can branch out later.
    2. Format. I think we would be best served in coming up with templates to use so that all of our information is presented the same.
    3. Eyore and I pretty much agree on this that if possible it could be stored here on Magic Music somehow. But then that is up to Jay.
    4. This needs serious thought because the information once collected needs to be accessible. Or it will be no good to anyone. I suggest a Wiki Format, as that would be the easiest for retrieval, (mediawiki is the same software used by wikipedia, plus it is free. And various links could be placed to give the more in depth information as needed or wanted.
    5. If we can find reliable information then perhaps place that information that we know to be good up.
    6. This one is tricky. I don't know how I could compare tracks from the OA series that I have against tracks I don't own, unless as part of the project we can list as source information what tracks we have. That way if I own a copy of four parks one world, and I reference that a track from 1995 is the same, that gives two to compare from and hopefully someone will have one of those albums to compare to plus what is in their collection. Sort of a Rosetta stone approach.
    And to not leave almandot out, No corner for you! The only question is how to document that difference. If there is a difference that could be proven such as using software that should show a certain decibel increase for that part, I don't see why it couldn't be included.
     
  9. almandot

    almandot Member

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    Just to give it some credence hopefully.. Here's the quick clip of the opening of one track followed by the opening of the other track, and then a repeat of both so track A track B track A track B. See if you can hear a difference and then I said which track is which in the spoiler.

    [Hollywood.aiff]

    Track A: Remember the Moments, Disneyland's 2006 OA
    Track B: Four Parks One World, WDW's 2008 OA
     
  10. eyore

    eyore DLRP explorer Premium Member Playlist Author

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    Nope, no difference whatsoever to my ear. They both sound the same on my equipment.
    As a musician, I normally have quite a good ear but I can't really pick up any changes between the two of them. That may, of course, be the result of what I'm playing them on.
    Maybe a more sensitive player would highlight any changes due to post production methods (in fact, that's probably very likely).
    This is why I suggested that re-recordings shouldn't be counted as it's player dependent if the changes are noticeable or not. Thrown on to a standard CD player and played on the PC, they sound the same to me.
    Just to confirm, the entire clip only lasts 4 seconds?
     
  11. almandot

    almandot Member

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    yep 4 seconds.

    are you listening on headphones? the second one sounds slightly muted compared to the first one to me, which may be a result of the first one being stereo and the second being mono it's rather short to determine if that's the case though.

    I haven't gone through the entire tracks to hear if there's any other subtle differences, this one just stuck out to me while listening. Is it enough to make me care which one I'm playing? Absolutely not.. Just found it interesting and wonder what happened for it...
     
  12. eyore

    eyore DLRP explorer Premium Member Playlist Author

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    Yes, I feel that if there is going to be a listing of albums it should be done with the same care that is given to the playlists.
    I also think this site is the place to present them as an addition to the playlists.
    What albums should be included is a matter for discussion of course as is the presentation.
    I like the idea of MagicMusic being the place to visit for accurate information on Disney music although I would restrict it to Park music or Park-related myself rather than just "Disney" in general. There are plenty of other sites with a few Disney albums listed. Do I really want to know the full details for Pardners or the Silly Songs albums? I think not (at this stage anyway) :blink: A complete listing would, to my mind, be a nice addition to the site.
    Of course, that's up to Jay and his vision for the site and I'm quite happy to abide with what he feels is best. ;)
     
  13. angiehashemi

    angiehashemi Member

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    I have almost all of the official albums in my collection. It took a lot of time and money to get them, but I got them. There may be one or two that I am missing, but I think I have them all anyway. I have never really found an all inclusive list of them, so as far as I know, I have them all.

    I am sure that I am not the only one here who has them though. I would be more than happy to try to do as many comparisons as I can between the OA albums. Once we make decisions about how to do this, I will be glad to do some of the comparisons. Anything I can do to help!
     
  14. Emcduck

    Emcduck Playlist Author

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    Sweet!

    I've got a good number, but not all.

    So I think we are at a point where we need Jay. I would love to have it here, but I'm only a member and it isn't for me to decide. From his earlier post, I know that Jay has plans for a database with the album art, but beyond that I am not sure of how the plans are intended to roll. If the boss wants to have it here, I am happy to work on this too.

    If the boss feels that it is outside the scope of the site, (which I doubt) I am willing to front the money and get the webspace and needed software, (Just as an In-case)

    Jay, I think we need you on the conversation. :)
     
  15. Tannerman

    Tannerman Member

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    As far as format, I started this project last year using Google Docs to visually illustrate the changes. Take a look

    This chart isn't complete or updated, but that's what I've been using as I go through the changes.
     
  16. almandot

    almandot Member

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    reaaaaaaaaally??? the 1 second of snare drum from the track repeated twice was removed?
     
  17. Magic Music

    Magic Music Administrator Playlist Author

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    Sorry, with only two downloads, it just wasn't worth the file space. :D

    If you'd like to host the file elsewhere, I'll be happy to add a link to your post. :)
     
  18. almandot

    almandot Member

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    Sorry. Next time I'll take opinion polls and form an upload action committee before I jump into using my file attachment quota...
     
  19. Emcduck

    Emcduck Playlist Author

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    Nice,

    That is a lot of info there and is definitely a great starting place. I'm guessing that the same colors mean that the song is essentially the same.

    Do you have larger copies of the Album Art?

    IMHO those should be the beginning albums as well.
     
  20. eyore

    eyore DLRP explorer Premium Member Playlist Author

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    May as well finish mye comments on the file that isn't there any more :p
    Tried burning to CD and playing on my Hi-Fi, headphones and PC and I honestly can't hear a difference. My setups are all pretty basic stuff with basic speakers (ie cheap)and they can't pick out any difference between them so I'm guessing that the changes (and I'm sure it's not your ears playing tricks) are the result of modern advanced recording techniques for the later disc rather than playing around with the master recording etc.
    So, one may ask, would a track issued on vinyl (with all the limitations) be regarded as a "new" track if released on CD with all the improved quality that brings.
    You raise a very valid point, I think.
    Answers on a postcard to.................... :D
     

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